1. Herodotus, Histories, 7.6, 7.140-7.144 (5th cent. BCE - 5th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • Chresmologoi • chresmologoi • chresmologues (chresmologoi) • divination, not admitted in court through chresmologoi • oracles, collectors, chanters, and interpreters (chresmologoi)
Found in books: Eidinow and Kindt (2015), The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Greek Religion, 299; Johnston (2008), Ancient Greek Divination, 137; Mikalson (2003), Herodotus and Religion in the Persian Wars, 38, 54, 55, 141, 157; Parker (2005), Polytheism and Society at Athens, 112
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7.6 ταῦτα ἔλεγε οἷα νεωτέρων ἔργων ἐπιθυμητὴς ἐὼν καὶ θέλων αὐτὸς τῆς Ἑλλάδος ὕπαρχος εἶναι. χρόνῳ δὲ κατεργάσατό τε καὶ ἀνέπεισε ὥστε ποιέειν ταῦτα Ξέρξην· συνέλαβε γὰρ καὶ ἄλλα οἱ σύμμαχα γενόμενα ἐς τὸ πείθεσθαι Ξέρξην. τοῦτο μὲν ἀπὸ τῆς Θεσσαλίης παρὰ τῶν Ἀλευαδέων ἀπιγμένοι ἄγγελοι ἐπεκαλέοντο βασιλέα πᾶσαν προθυμίην παρεχόμενοι ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα· οἱ δὲ Ἀλευάδαι οὗτοι ἦσαν Θεσσαλίης βασιλέες. τοῦτο δὲ Πεισιστρατιδέων οἱ ἀναβεβηκότες ἐς Σοῦσα, τῶν τε αὐτῶν λόγων ἐχόμενοι τῶν καὶ οἱ Ἀλευάδαι, καὶ δή τι πρὸς τούτοισι ἔτι πλέον προσωρέγοντό οἱ· ἔχοντες Ὀνομάκριτον ἄνδρα Ἀθηναῖον, χρησμολόγον τε καὶ διαθέτην χρησμῶν τῶν Μουσαίου, ἀναβεβήκεσαν, τὴν ἔχθρην προκαταλυσάμενοι. ἐξηλάσθη γὰρ ὑπὸ Ἱππάρχου τοῦ Πεισιστράτου ὁ Ὀνομάκριτος ἐξ Ἀθηνέων, ἐπʼ αὐτοφώρῳ ἁλοὺς ὑπὸ Λάσου τοῦ Ἑρμιονέος ἐμποιέων ἐς τὰ Μουσαίου χρησμόν, ὡς αἱ ἐπὶ Λήμνῳ ἐπικείμεναι νῆσοι ἀφανιζοίατο κατὰ τῆς θαλάσσης. διὸ ἐξήλασέ μιν ὁ Ἵππαρχος, πρότερον χρεώμενος τὰ μάλιστα. τότε δὲ συναναβὰς ὅκως ἀπίκοιτο ἐς ὄψιν τὴν βασιλέος, λεγόντων τῶν Πεισιστρατιδέων περὶ αὐτοῦ σεμνοὺς λόγους, κατέλεγε τῶν χρησμῶν· εἰ μέν τι ἐνέοι σφάλμα φέρον τῷ βαρβάρῳ, τῶν μὲν ἔλεγε οὐδέν, ὁ δὲ τὰ εὐτυχέστατα ἐκλεγόμενος ἔλεγε τόν τε Ἑλλήσποντον ὡς ζευχθῆναι χρεὸν εἴη ὑπʼ ἀνδρὸς Πέρσεω, τήν τε ἔλασιν ἐξηγεόμενος. οὗτός τε δὴ χρησμῳδέων προσεφέρετο καὶ οἵ τε Πεισιστρατίδαι καὶ οἱ Ἀλευάδαι γνώμας ἀποδεικνύμενοι.
7.140 πέμψαντες γὰρ οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι ἐς Δελφοὺς θεοπρόπους χρηστηριάζεσθαι ἦσαν ἕτοιμοι· καί σφι ποιήσασι περὶ τὸ ἱρὸν τὰ νομιζόμενα, ὡς ἐς τὸ μέγαρον ἐσελθόντες ἵζοντο, χρᾷ ἡ Πυθίη, τῇ οὔνομα ἦν Ἀριστονίκη, τάδε. ὦ μέλεοι, τί κάθησθε; λιπὼν φεῦγʼ ἔσχατα γαίης δώματα καὶ πόλιος τροχοειδέος ἄκρα κάρηνα. οὔτε γὰρ ἡ κεφαλὴ μένει ἔμπεδον οὔτε τὸ σῶμα, οὔτε πόδες νέατοι οὔτʼ ὦν χέρες, οὔτε τι μέσσης λείπεται, ἀλλʼ ἄζηλα πέλει· κατὰ γάρ μιν ἐρείπει πῦρ τε καὶ ὀξὺς Ἄρης, Συριηγενὲς ἅρμα διώκων. πολλὰ δὲ κἆλλʼ ἀπολεῖ πυργώματα κοὐ τὸ σὸν οἶον, πολλοὺς δʼ ἀθανάτων νηοὺς μαλερῷ πυρὶ δώσει, οἵ που νῦν ἱδρῶτι ῥεούμενοι ἑστήκασι, δείματι παλλόμενοι, κατὰ δʼ ἀκροτάτοις ὀρόφοισι αἷμα μέλαν κέχυται, προϊδὸν κακότητος ἀνάγκας. ἀλλʼ ἴτον ἐξ ἀδύτοιο, κακοῖς δʼ ἐπικίδνατε θυμόν. 7.141 ταῦτα ἀκούσαντες οἱ τῶν Ἀθηναίων θεοπρόποι συμφορῇ τῇ μεγίστῃ ἐχρέωντο. προβάλλουσι δὲ σφέας αὐτοὺς ὑπὸ τοῦ κακοῦ τοῦ κεχρησμένου, Τίμων ὁ Ἀνδροβούλου, τῶν Δελφῶν ἀνὴρ δόκιμος ὅμοια τῷ μάλιστα, συνεβούλευέ σφι ἱκετηρίην λαβοῦσι δεύτερα αὖτις ἐλθόντας χρᾶσθαι τῷ χρηστηρίῳ ὡς ἱκέτας. πειθομένοισι δὲ ταῦτα τοῖσι Ἀθηναίοισι καὶ λέγουσι “ὦναξ, χρῆσον ἡμῖν ἄμεινόν τι περὶ τῆς πατρίδος, αἰδεσθεὶς τὰς ἱκετηρίας τάσδε τάς τοι ἥκομεν φέροντες, ἢ οὔ τοι ἄπιμεν ἐκ τοῦ ἀδύτου, ἀλλʼ αὐτοῦ τῇδε μενέομεν ἔστʼ ἂν καὶ τελευτήσωμεν,” ταῦτα δὲ λέγουσι ἡ πρόμαντις χρᾷ δεύτερα τάδε. οὐ δύναται Παλλὰς Δίʼ Ὀλύμπιον ἐξιλάσασθαι λισσομένη πολλοῖσι λόγοις καὶ μήτιδι πυκνῇ. σοὶ δὲ τόδʼ αὖτις ἔπος ἐρέω ἀδάμαντι πελάσσας. τῶν ἄλλων γὰρ ἁλισκομένων ὅσα Κέκροπος οὖρος ἐντὸς ἔχει κευθμών τε Κιθαιρῶνος ζαθέοιο, τεῖχος Τριτογενεῖ ξύλινον διδοῖ εὐρύοπα Ζεύς μοῦνον ἀπόρθητον τελέθειν, τὸ σὲ τέκνα τʼ ὀνήσει. μηδὲ σύ γʼ ἱπποσύνην τε μένειν καὶ πεζὸν ἰόντα πολλὸν ἀπʼ ἠπείρου στρατὸν ἥσυχος, ἀλλʼ ὑποχωρεῖν νῶτον ἐπιστρέψας· ἔτι τοι ποτε κἀντίος ἔσσῃ. ὦ θείη Σαλαμίς, ἀπολεῖς δὲ σὺ τέκνα γυναικῶν ἤ που σκιδναμένης Δημήτερος ἢ συνιούσης. 7.142 ταῦτα σφι ἠπιώτερα γὰρ τῶν προτέρων καὶ ἦν καὶ ἐδόκεε εἶναι, συγγραψάμενοι ἀπαλλάσσοντο ἐς τὰς Ἀθήνας. ὡς δὲ ἀπελθόντες οἱ θεοπρόποι ἀπήγγελλον ἐς τὸν δῆμον, γνῶμαι καὶ ἄλλαι πολλαὶ γίνονται διζημένων τὸ μαντήιον καὶ αἵδε συνεστηκυῖαι μάλιστα. τῶν πρεσβυτέρων ἔλεγον μετεξέτεροι δοκέειν σφίσι τὸν θεὸν τὴν ἀκρόπολιν χρῆσαι περιέσεσθαι. ἡ γὰρ ἀκρόπολις τὸ πάλαι τῶν Ἀθηναίων ῥηχῷ ἐπέφρακτο. οἳ μὲν δὴ κατὰ τὸν φραγμὸν συνεβάλλοντο τοῦτο τὸ ξύλινον τεῖχος εἶναι, οἳ δʼ αὖ ἔλεγον τὰς νέας σημαίνειν τὸν θεόν, καὶ ταύτας παραρτέεσθαι ἐκέλευον τὰ ἄλλα ἀπέντας. τοὺς ὦν δὴ τὰς νέας λέγοντας εἶναι τὸ ξύλινον τεῖχος ἔσφαλλε τὰ δύο τὰ τελευταῖα ῥηθέντα ὑπὸ τῆς Πυθίης, ὦ θείη Σαλαμίς, ἀπολεῖς δὲ σὺ τέκνα γυναικῶν ἤ που σκιδναμένης Δημήτερος ἢ συνιούσης. κατὰ ταῦτα τὰ ἔπεα συνεχέοντο αἱ γνῶμαι τῶν φαμένων τὰς νέας τὸ ξύλινον τεῖχος εἶναι· οἱ γὰρ χρησμολόγοι ταύτῃ ταῦτα ἐλάμβανον, ὡς ἀμφὶ Σαλαμῖνα δεῖ σφεας ἑσσωθῆναι ναυμαχίην παρασκευασαμένους. 7.143 ἦν δὲ τῶν τις Ἀθηναίων ἀνὴρ ἐς πρώτους νεωστὶ παριών, τῷ οὔνομα μὲν ἦν Θεμιστοκλέης, παῖς δὲ Νεοκλέος ἐκαλέετο. οὗτος ὡνὴρ οὐκ ἔφη πᾶν ὀρθῶς τοὺς χρησμολόγους συμβάλλεσθαι, λέγων τοιάδε· εἰ ἐς Ἀθηναίους εἶχε τὸ ἔπος εἰρημένον ἐόντως, οὐκ ἂν οὕτω μιν δοκέειν ἠπίως χρησθῆναι, ἀλλὰ ὧδε “ὦ σχετλίη Σαλαμίσ” ἀντὶ τοῦ “ὦ θείη Σαλαμίς,” εἴ πέρ γε ἔμελλον οἱ οἰκήτορες ἀμφʼ αὐτῇ τελευτήσειν· ἀλλὰ γὰρ ἐς τοὺς πολεμίους τῷ θεῷ εἰρῆσθαι τὸ χρηστήριον συλλαμβάνοντι κατὰ τὸ ὀρθόν, ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐς Ἀθηναίους· παρασκευάζεσθαι ὦν αὐτοὺς ὡς ναυμαχήσοντας συνεβούλευε, ὡς τούτου ἐόντος τοῦ ξυλίνου τείχεος. ταύτῃ Θεμιστοκλέος ἀποφαινομένου Ἀθηναῖοι ταῦτα σφίσι ἔγνωσαν αἱρετώτερα εἶναι μᾶλλον ἢ τὰ τῶν χρησμολόγων, οἳ οὐκ ἔων ναυμαχίην ἀρτέεσθαι, τὸ δὲ σύμπαν εἰπεῖν οὐδὲ χεῖρας ἀνταείρεσθαι, ἀλλὰ ἐκλιπόντας χώρην τὴν Ἀττικὴν ἄλλην τινὰ οἰκίζειν. 7.144 ἑτέρη τε Θεμιστοκλέι γνώμη ἔμπροσθε ταύτης ἐς καιρὸν ἠρίστευσε, ὅτε Ἀθηναίοισι γενομένων χρημάτων μεγάλων ἐν τῷ κοινῷ, τὰ ἐκ τῶν μετάλλων σφι προσῆλθε τῶν ἀπὸ Λαυρείου, ἔμελλον λάξεσθαι ὀρχηδὸν ἕκαστος δέκα δραχμάς· τότε Θεμιστοκλέης ἀνέγνωσε Ἀθηναίους τῆς διαιρέσιος ταύτης παυσαμένους νέας τούτων τῶν χρημάτων ποιήσασθαι διηκοσίας ἐς τὸν πόλεμον, τὸν πρὸς Αἰγινήτας λέγων. οὗτος γὰρ ὁ πόλεμος συστὰς ἔσωσε ἐς τὸ τότε τὴν Ἑλλάδα, ἀναγκάσας θαλασσίους γενέσθαι Ἀθηναίους. αἳ δὲ ἐς τὸ μὲν ἐποιήθησαν οὐκ ἐχρήσθησαν, ἐς δέον δὲ οὕτω τῇ Ἑλλάδι ἐγένοντο. αὗταί τε δὴ αἱ νέες τοῖσι Ἀθηναίοισι προποιηθεῖσαι ὑπῆρχον, ἑτέρας τε ἔδεε προσναυπηγέεσθαι. ἔδοξέ τέ σφι μετὰ τὸ χρηστήριον βουλευομένοισι ἐπιόντα ἐπὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα τὸν βάρβαρον δέκεσθαι τῇσι νηυσὶ πανδημεί, τῷ θεῷ πειθομένους, ἅμα Ἑλλήνων τοῖσι βουλομένοισι.'' None | sup>
7.6 He said this because he desired adventures and wanted to be governor of Hellas. Finally he worked on Xerxes and persuaded him to do this, and other things happened that helped him to persuade Xerxes. ,Messengers came from Thessaly from the Aleuadae (who were princes of Thessaly) and invited the king into Hellas with all earnestness; the Pisistratidae who had come up to Susa used the same pleas as the Aleuadae, offering Xerxes even more than they did. ,They had come up to Sardis with Onomacritus, an Athenian diviner who had set in order the oracles of Musaeus. They had reconciled their previous hostility with him; Onomacritus had been banished from Athens by Pisistratus' son Hipparchus, when he was caught by Lasus of Hermione in the act of interpolating into the writings of Musaeus an oracle showing that the islands off Lemnos would disappear into the sea. ,Because of this Hipparchus banished him, though they had previously been close friends. Now he had arrived at Susa with the Pisistratidae, and whenever he came into the king's presence they used lofty words concerning him and he recited from his oracles; all that portended disaster to the Persian he left unspoken, choosing and reciting such prophecies as were most favorable, telling how the Hellespont must be bridged by a man of Persia and describing the expedition. ,So he brought his oracles to bear, while the Pisistratidae and Aleuadae gave their opinions. " 7.140 The Athenians had sent messages to Delphi asking that an oracle be given them, and when they had performed all due rites at the temple and sat down in the inner hall, the priestess, whose name was Aristonice, gave them this answer: ,7.141 When the Athenian messengers heard that, they were very greatly dismayed, and gave themselves up for lost by reason of the evil foretold. Then Timon son of Androbulus, as notable a man as any Delphian, advised them to take boughs of supplication and in the guise of suppliants, approach the oracle a second time. ,The Athenians did exactly this; “Lord,” they said, “regard mercifully these suppliant boughs which we bring to you, and give us some better answer concerning our country. Otherwise we will not depart from your temple, but remain here until we die.” Thereupon the priestess gave them this second oracle: ,7.142 This answer seemed to be and really was more merciful than the first, and the envoys, writing it down, departed for Athens. When the messengers had left Delphi and laid the oracle before the people, there was much inquiry concerning its meaning, and among the many opinions which were uttered, two contrary ones were especially worthy of note. Some of the elder men said that the gods answer signified that the acropolis should be saved, for in old time the acropolis of Athens had been fenced by a thorn hedge, ,which, by their interpretation, was the wooden wall. But others supposed that the god was referring to their ships, and they were for doing nothing but equipping these. Those who believed their ships to be the wooden wall were disabled by the two last verses of the oracle: 7.143 Now there was a certain Athenian, by name and title Themistocles son of Neocles, who had lately risen to be among their chief men. He claimed that the readers of oracles had incorrectly interpreted the whole of the oracle and reasoned that if the verse really pertained to the Athenians, it would have been formulated in less mild language, calling Salamis “cruel” rather than “divine ” seeing that its inhabitants were to perish. ,Correctly understood, the gods' oracle was spoken not of the Athenians but of their enemies, and his advice was that they should believe their ships to be the wooden wall and so make ready to fight by sea. ,When Themistocles put forward this interpretation, the Athenians judged him to be a better counsellor than the readers of oracles, who would have had them prepare for no sea fight, and, in short, offer no resistance at all, but leave Attica and settle in some other country. " "7.144 The advice of Themistocles had prevailed on a previous occasion. The revenues from the mines at Laurium had brought great wealth into the Athenians' treasury, and when each man was to receive ten drachmae for his share, Themistocles persuaded the Athenians to make no such division but to use the money to build two hundred ships for the war, that is, for the war with Aegina. ,This was in fact the war the outbreak of which saved Hellas by compelling the Athenians to become seamen. The ships were not used for the purpose for which they were built, but later came to serve Hellas in her need. These ships, then, had been made and were already there for the Athenians' service, and now they had to build yet others. ,In their debate after the giving of the oracle they accordingly resolved that they would put their trust in the god and meet the foreign invader of Hellas with the whole power of their fleet, ships and men, and with all other Greeks who were so minded. "" None |
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2. Plato, Apology of Socrates, None (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • chresmologoi • chresmologues (chresmologoi) • war, success in, and chresmologoi
Found in books: Johnston (2008), Ancient Greek Divination, 137; Mikalson (2010), Greek Popular Religion in Greek Philosophy, 125, 126
| 22c ἃ ποιοῖεν, ἀλλὰ φύσει τινὶ καὶ ἐνθουσιάζοντες ὥσπερ οἱ θεομάντεις καὶ οἱ χρησμῳδοί· καὶ γὰρ οὗτοι λέγουσι μὲν πολλὰ καὶ καλά, ἴσασιν δὲ οὐδὲν ὧν λέγουσι. τοιοῦτόν τί μοι ἐφάνησαν πάθος καὶ οἱ ποιηταὶ πεπονθότες, καὶ ἅμα ᾐσθόμην αὐτῶν διὰ τὴν ποίησιν οἰομένων καὶ τἆλλα σοφωτάτων εἶναι ἀνθρώπων ἃ οὐκ ἦσαν. ἀπῇα οὖν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν τῷ αὐτῷ οἰόμενος περιγεγονέναι ᾧπερ καὶ τῶν πολιτικῶν.'' None | 22c that what they composed they composed not by wisdom, but by nature and because they were inspired, like the prophets and givers of oracles; for these also say many fine things, but know none of the things they say; it was evident to me that the poets too had experienced something of this same sort. And at the same time I perceived that they, on account of their poetry, thought that they were the wisest of men in other things as well, in which they were not. So I went away from them also thinking that I was superior to them in the same thing in which I excelled the public men.Finally then I went to the hand-workers.'' None |
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3. Plato, Euthyphro, None (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • chresmologoi • divination, not admitted in court through chresmologoi
Found in books: Mikalson (2010), Greek Popular Religion in Greek Philosophy, 128; Parker (2005), Polytheism and Society at Athens, 114
| 3b ΣΩ. ἄτοπα, ὦ θαυμάσιε, ὡς οὕτω γʼ ἀκοῦσαι. φησὶ γάρ με ποιητὴν εἶναι θεῶν, καὶ ὡς καινοὺς ποιοῦντα θεοὺς τοὺς δʼ ἀρχαίους οὐ νομίζοντα ἐγράψατο τούτων αὐτῶν ἕνεκα, ὥς φησιν. ΕΥΘ. μανθάνω, ὦ Σώκρατες· ὅτι δὴ σὺ τὸ δαιμόνιον φῂς σαυτῷ ἑκάστοτε γίγνεσθαι. ὡς οὖν καινοτομοῦντός σου περὶ τὰ θεῖα γέγραπται ταύτην τὴν γραφήν, καὶ ὡς διαβαλῶν δὴ ἔρχεται εἰς τὸ δικαστήριον, εἰδὼς ὅτι εὐδιάβολα τὰ τοιαῦτα πρὸς τοὺς πολλούς. καὶ ἐμοῦ γάρ τοι,'3c ΣΩ. ὦ φίλε Εὐθύφρων, ἀλλὰ τὸ μὲν καταγελασθῆναι ἴσως οὐδὲν πρᾶγμα. Ἀθηναίοις γάρ τοι, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, οὐ σφόδρα μέλει ἄν τινα δεινὸν οἴωνται εἶναι, μὴ μέντοι διδασκαλικὸν τῆς αὑτοῦ σοφίας· ὃν δʼ ἂν καὶ ἄλλους οἴωνται ' None | 3b Socrates. Absurd things, my friend, at first hearing. For he says I am a maker of gods; and because I make new gods and do not believe in the old ones, he indicted me for the sake of these old ones, as he says. Euthyphro. I understand, Socrates; it is because you say the divine monitor keeps coming to you. So he has brought the indictment against you for making innovations in religion, and he is going into court to slander you, knowing that slanders on such subjects are readily accepted by the people. Why, they even laugh at me and say I am crazy'3c Socrates. My dear Euthyphro, their ridicule is perhaps of no consequence. For the Athenians, I fancy, are not much concerned, if they think a man is clever, provided he does not impart his clever notions to others; but when they think he makes others to be like himself, ' None |
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4. Plato, Ion, None (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • chresmologues (chresmologoi) • war, success in, and chresmologoi
Found in books: Johnston (2008), Ancient Greek Divination, 137; Mikalson (2010), Greek Popular Religion in Greek Philosophy, 126
| 534c τῶν πραγμάτων, ὥσπερ σὺ περὶ Ὁμήρου, ἀλλὰ θείᾳ μοίρᾳ, τοῦτο μόνον οἷός τε ἕκαστος ποιεῖν καλῶς ἐφʼ ὃ ἡ Μοῦσα αὐτὸν ὥρμησεν, ὁ μὲν διθυράμβους, ὁ δὲ ἐγκώμια, ὁ δὲ ὑπορχήματα, ὁ δʼ ἔπη, ὁ δʼ ἰάμβους· τὰ δʼ ἄλλα φαῦλος αὐτῶν ἕκαστός ἐστιν. οὐ γὰρ τέχνῃ ταῦτα λέγουσιν ἀλλὰ θείᾳ δυνάμει, ἐπεί, εἰ περὶ ἑνὸς τέχνῃ καλῶς ἠπίσταντο λέγειν, κἂν περὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἁπάντων· διὰ ταῦτα δὲ ὁ θεὸς ἐξαιρούμενος τούτων τὸν νοῦν τούτοις χρῆται ὑπηρέταις καὶ'' None | 534c as you do about Homer—but by a divine dispensation, each is able only to compose that to which the Muse has stirred him, this man dithyrambs, another laudatory odes, another dance-songs, another epic or else iambic verse; but each is at fault in any other kind. For not by art do they utter these things, but by divine influence; since, if they had fully learnt by art to speak on one kind of theme, they would know how to speak on all. And for this reason God takes away the mind of these men and uses them as his ministers, just as he does soothsayers and godly seers,'' None |
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5. Plato, Meno, None (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • chresmologoi • chresmologues (chresmologoi) • war, success in, and chresmologoi
Found in books: Johnston (2008), Ancient Greek Divination, 137; Mikalson (2010), Greek Popular Religion in Greek Philosophy, 125, 126
| 99c γίγνεται· ᾗ οἱ πολιτικοὶ ἄνδρες χρώμενοι τὰς πόλεις ὀρθοῦσιν, οὐδὲν διαφερόντως ἔχοντες πρὸς τὸ φρονεῖν ἢ οἱ χρησμῳδοί τε καὶ οἱ θεομάντεις· καὶ γὰρ οὗτοι ἐνθουσιῶντες λέγουσιν μὲν ἀληθῆ καὶ πολλά, ἴσασι δὲ οὐδὲν ὧν λέγουσιν. ΜΕΝ. κινδυνεύει οὕτως ἔχειν. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν, ὦ Μένων, ἄξιον τούτους θείους καλεῖν τοὺς ἄνδρας, οἵτινες νοῦν μὴ ἔχοντες πολλὰ καὶ μεγάλα κατορθοῦσιν ὧν πράττουσι καὶ λέγουσι; ΜΕΝ. πάνυ γε. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς ἄρʼ ἂν καλοῖμεν θείους τε οὓς νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν'' None | 99c This is the means which statesmen employ for their direction of states, and they have nothing more to do with wisdom than soothsayers and diviners; for these people utter many a true thing when inspired, but have no knowledge of anything they say. Men. I daresay that is so. Soc. And may we, Meno, rightly call those men divine who, having no understanding, yet succeed in many a great deed and word? Men. Certainly. Soc. Then we shall be right in calling those divine of whom'' None |
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6. Thucydides, The History of The Peloponnesian War, 8.1.1 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • Chresmologoi • chresmologoi • divination, not admitted in court through chresmologoi • oracles, collectors, chanters, and interpreters (chresmologoi)
Found in books: Eidinow and Kindt (2015), The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Greek Religion, 299; Mikalson (2003), Herodotus and Religion in the Persian Wars, 38; Parker (2005), Polytheism and Society at Athens, 113
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8.1.1 ἐς δὲ τὰς Ἀθήνας ἐπειδὴ ἠγγέλθη, ἐπὶ πολὺ μὲν ἠπίστουν καὶ τοῖς πάνυ τῶν στρατιωτῶν ἐξ αὐτοῦ τοῦ ἔργου διαπεφευγόσι καὶ σαφῶς ἀγγέλλουσι, μὴ οὕτω γε ἄγαν πανσυδὶ διεφθάρθαι: ἐπειδὴ δὲ ἔγνωσαν, χαλεποὶ μὲν ἦσαν τοῖς ξυμπροθυμηθεῖσι τῶν ῥητόρων τὸν ἔκπλουν, ὥσπερ οὐκ αὐτοὶ ψηφισάμενοι, ὠργίζοντο δὲ καὶ τοῖς χρησμολόγοις τε καὶ μάντεσι καὶ ὁπόσοι τι τότε αὐτοὺς θειάσαντες ἐπήλπισαν ὡς λήψονται Σικελίαν.'' None | sup>
8.1.1 Such were the events in Sicily . When the news was brought to Athens, for a long while they disbelieved even the most respectable of the soldiers who had themselves escaped from the scene of action and clearly reported the matter, a destruction so complete not being thought credible. When the conviction was forced upon them, they were angry with the orators who had joined in promoting the expedition, just as if they had not themselves voted it, and were enraged also with the reciters of oracles and soothsayers, and all other omenmongers of the time who had encouraged them to hope that they should conquer Sicily . '' None |
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7. None, None, nan (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
Tagged with subjects: • chresmologoi • chresmologues (chresmologoi) • divination, not admitted in court through chresmologoi
Found in books: Johnston (2008), Ancient Greek Divination, 138; Parker (2005), Polytheism and Society at Athens, 113
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