| 71a. חייב:,אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה עד שיאכל בשר וישתה יין: תנו רבנן אכל כל מאכל ולא אכל בשר שתה כל משקה ולא שתה יין אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה עד שיאכל בשר וישתה יין שנאמר זולל וסובא,ואע"פ שאין ראייה לדבר זכר לדבר שנאמר (משלי כג, כ) אל תהי בסובאי יין בזוללי בשר למו ואומר (משלי כג, כא) כי סובא וזולל יורש וקרעים תלביש נומה אמר ר' זירא כל הישן בבית המדרש תורתו נעשית לו קרעים קרעים שנאמר וקרעים תלביש נומה:, big strongמתני׳ /strong /big גנב משל אביו ואכל ברשות אביו משל אחרים ואכל ברשות אחרים משל אחרים ואכל ברשות אביו אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה עד שיגנוב משל אביו ויאכל ברשות אחרים רבי יוסי בר' יהודה אומר עד שיגנוב משל אביו ומשל אמו:, big strongגמ׳ /strong /big גנב משל אביו ואכל ברשות אביו אע"ג דשכיח ליה בעית,משל אחרים ואכל ברשות אחרים אע"ג דלא בעית לא שכיח ליה וכל שכן משל אחרים ואכל ברשות אביו דלא שכיח ליה ובעית,עד שיגנוב משל אביו ויאכל ברשות אחרים דשכיח ליה ולא בעית:,רבי יוסי בר' יהודה אומר עד שיגנוב משל אביו ומשל אמו: אמו מנא לה מה שקנתה אשה קנה בעלה אמר רבי יוסי בר' חנינא מסעודה המוכנת לאביו ולאמו,והאמר רבי חנן בר מולדה אמר רב הונא אינו חייב עד שיקנה בשר בזול ויאכל יין בזול וישתה אלא אימא מדמי סעודה המוכנת לאביו ולאמו,איבעית אימא דאקני לה אחר ואמר לה על מנת שאין לבעליך רשות בהן:, big strongמתני׳ /strong /big היה אביו רוצה ואמו אינה רוצה אביו אינו רוצה ואמו רוצה אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה עד שיהו שניהם רוצין רבי יהודה אומר אם לא היתה אמו ראויה לאביו אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה:, big strongגמ׳ /strong /big מאי אינה ראויה אילימא חייבי כריתות וחייבי מיתות ב"ד סוף סוף אבוה אבוה נינהו ואמיה אמיה נינהו,אלא בשוה לאביו קאמר תניא נמי הכי רבי יהודה אומר אם לא היתה אמו שוה לאביו בקול ובמראה ובקומה אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה מאי טעמא דאמר קרא איננו שומע בקלנו מדקול בעינן שוין מראה וקומה נמי בעינן שוין,כמאן אזלא הא דתניא בן סורר ומורה לא היה ולא עתיד להיות ולמה נכתב דרוש וקבל שכר כמאן כרבי יהודה,איבעית אימא ר' שמעון היא דתניא אמר רבי שמעון וכי מפני שאכל זה תרטימר בשר ושתה חצי לוג יין האיטלקי אביו ואמו מוציאין אותו לסקלו אלא לא היה ולא עתיד להיות ולמה נכתב דרוש וקבל שכר אמר ר' יונתן אני ראיתיו וישבתי על קברו,כמאן אזלא הא דתניא עיר הנדחת לא היתה ולא עתידה להיות ולמה נכתבה דרוש וקבל שכר כמאן כר' אליעזר דתניא רבי אליעזר אומר כל עיר שיש בה אפילו מזוזה אחת אינה נעשית עיר הנדחת,מאי טעמא אמר קרא (דברים יג, יז) ואת כל שללה תקבוץ אל תוך רחבה ושרפת באש וכיון דאי איכא מזוזה לא אפשר דכתיב (דברים יב, ד) לא תעשון כן לה' אלהיכם אמר רבי יונתן אני ראיתיה וישבתי על תילה,כמאן אזלא הא דתניא בית המנוגע לא היה ולא עתיד להיות ולמה נכתב דרוש וקבל שכר כמאן כר' אלעזר בר' שמעון דתנן ר' אלעזר ברבי שמעון אומר לעולם אין הבית טמא עד שיראה כשתי גריסין על שתי אבנים בשתי כתלים בקרן זוית ארכו כשני גריסין ורחבו כגריס,מאי טעמא דר' אלעזר ברבי שמעון כתיב קיר וכתיב קירות איזהו קיר שהוא כקירות הוי אומר זה קרן זוית,תניא אמר רבי אליעזר בר' צדוק מקום היה בתחום עזה והיו קורין אותו חורבתא סגירתא אמר רבי שמעון איש כפר עכו פעם אחת הלכתי לגליל וראיתי מקום שמציינין אותו ואמרו אבנים מנוגעות פינו לשם:, big strongמתני׳ /strong /big היה אחד מהם גידם או חיגר או אלם או סומא או חרש אינו נעשה בן סורר ומורה שנאמר (דברים כא, יט) ותפשו בו אביו ואמו ולא גדמין והוציאו אותו ולא חגרין ואמרו ולא אלמין בננו זה ולא סומין איננו שומע בקולנו ולא חרשין,מתרין בו בפני שלשה ומלקין אותו חזר וקלקל נדון בעשרים ושלשה ואינו נסקל עד שיהו שם שלשה הראשונים שנאמר בננו זה זהו שלקה בפניכם:, big strongגמ׳ /strong /big שמעת מינה בעינן קרא כדכתיב שאני הכא | 71a. he is b liable /b for entering the Temple while intoxicated.,§ The mishna teaches that the boy b does not become a stubborn and rebellious son unless he /b actually b eats meat and drinks wine. The Sages taught /b in a i baraita /i : If b he ate any /b other b food but did not eat meat, /b or if b he drank any /b other b beverage but did not drink wine, he does not become a stubborn and rebellious son unless he /b actually b eats meat and drinks wine, as it is stated: /b “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voices; he is b a glutton and a drunkard.” /b , b And although there is no /b explicit b proof to the matter, /b there is b an allusion to the matter /b in another verse, b as it is stated: “Be not among wine drinkers, among gluttonous eaters of meat” /b (Proverbs 23:20). b And /b the verse b states: “For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty, and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags” /b (Proverbs 23:21). That is to say, a person who is a glutton and a drunkard, and sleeps a lot due to his excessive eating and drinking, will end up poor and dressed in rags. b Rabbi Zeira /b expounds the same verse and b says: /b With regard to b anyone who sleeps in the study hall, his Torah shall become tattered, as it is stated: “And drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.” /b , strong MISHNA: /strong If b he stole that /b which belonged b to his father and ate on his father’s property, /b or he stole that which belonged b to others and ate on the property of others, /b or he stole that which belonged b to others and ate on his father’s property, he does not become a stubborn and rebellious son, unless he steals /b that which belonged b to his father and eats on the property of others. Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Yehuda, says: /b He does not become a stubborn and rebellious son b unless he steals /b that which belonged b to his father and /b that which belonged b to his mother. /b , strong GEMARA: /strong The Gemara explains the reasons for the various i halakhot /i taught in the mishna: If b he stole /b that which belonged b to his father and ate on his father’s property, even though this is accessible to him /b and it is easy for him to steal, b he is afraid /b that his father will see him eating what he had stolen, and therefore he will not be drawn after his action to further evil.,If he stole that which belonged b to others and ate on the property of others, even though he is not afraid /b of them, as they neither know him nor watch over him, this theft b is not /b easily b accessible to him, /b as it is performed on someone else’s property, and therefore he will not be drawn to additional sin. b And all the more so /b if he stole that which belonged b to others and ate on his father’s property, /b in b which /b case b it is not accessible to him, and he is /b also b afraid /b of his father.,Therefore, he is not liable b unless he steals /b that which belonged b to his father and eats on the property of others, /b in b which /b case b it is /b easily b accessible to him, and he is not afraid, /b and there is concern that he will be drawn after his action to additional sin.,The mishna teaches that b Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Yehuda, says /b that he is not liable as a stubborn and rebellious son b unless he steals /b that which belonged b to his father and /b that which belonged b to his mother. /b The Gemara asks: With regard to b his mother, from where does she have /b independently owned property that her son can steal? The basis for this question is the i halakha /i that b anything that a woman acquires is acquired by her husband. Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, says /b in answer to this question: The mishna is referring to a case where the boy stole food b from a meal that had been prepared for his father and for his mother. /b In such a case the husband grants his wife ownership of the food that she will eat over the course of her meal.,The Gemara raises a difficulty. b But doesn’t Rabbi Ḥa bar Molada say /b that b Rav Huna says: /b A stubborn and rebellious son b is not liable unless he purchases inexpensive meat and eats /b it, and he purchases b inexpensive wine and drinks /b it, which indicates that he becomes liable only if he steals money, not if he steals the actual meat and wine? b Rather, say /b that the boy stole b from money /b set aside b for a meal that was to be prepared for his father and for his mother. /b ,The Gemara presents another answer to the question posed concerning the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Yehuda: b If you wish, say /b instead b that another /b person b gave /b property b to /b the mother b and said to her: /b This shall be yours b on the condition that your husband shall have no right to it. /b In such a case, the woman acquires the property for herself and her husband does not acquire it. Therefore, it is possible for the son to steal from his mother’s property., strong MISHNA: /strong If b his father wishes /b to have him punished b but his mother does not wish /b that, or if b his father does not wish /b to have him punished b but his mother wishes /b that, b he does not become a stubborn and rebellious son, unless they both wish /b that he be punished. b Rabbi Yehuda says: If his mother was not suited for his father, /b the two being an inappropriate match, as the Gemara will explain, b he does not become a stubborn and rebellious son. /b , strong GEMARA: /strong The Gemara asks: b What /b does Rabbi Yehuda mean when he speaks of the mother as being b not suited /b for the father? b If we say /b that due to their union they are among b those who are liable to /b receive b i karet /i , /b in which case the marriage does not take effect, b and /b certainly if the union puts them in the category of b those who are liable to /b receive one of the types of b court- /b imposed b death /b penalty, in which case the marriage also does not take effect, there is a difficulty: Why should it matter if they are not married? b Ultimately, his father is /b still b his father and his mother is /b still b his mother, /b and the verses concerning the stubborn and rebellious son can be fulfilled., b Rather, /b Rabbi Yehuda b is saying /b that the boy’s mother must be b identical to his father /b in several aspects. The Gemara comments: b This is also taught /b in a i baraita /i : b Rabbi Yehuda says: If his mother was not identical to his father in voice, appearance, and height, he does not become a stubborn and rebellious son. /b The Gemara asks: b What is the reason /b for this? b As the verse states: “He will not obey our voices /b [ b i kolenu /i /b ]” (Deuteronomy 21:20), which indicates that they both have the same voice. And b since we require /b that they be b identical /b in b voice, we also require /b that they be b identical /b in b appearance and height. /b ,The Gemara asks: b In accordance with whose /b opinion b is that which is taught /b in a i baraita /i : b There has never been a stubborn and rebellious son and there will never be /b one b in the future, /b as it is impossible to fulfill all the requirements that must be met in order to apply this i halakha /i . b And why, /b then, b was /b the passage relating to a stubborn and rebellious son b written /b in the Torah? So that b you may expound /b upon new understandings of the Torah b and receive reward /b for your learning, this being an aspect of the Torah that has only theoretical value. b In accordance with whose /b opinion is this? It is b in accordance with /b the opinion of b Rabbi Yehuda, /b who requires that the parents have certain identical characteristics, making it virtually impossible to apply the i halakha /i ., b If you wish, say /b instead that this i baraita /i b is /b in accordance with the opinion of b Rabbi Shimon. As it is taught /b in a i baraita /i that b Rabbi Shimon says: And is it /b simply b due to /b the fact b that /b the boy b ate a i tarteimar /i of meat and drank a half- i log /i of Italian wine /b that b his father and his mother shall take him out to stone him? Rather, there has never been /b a stubborn and rebellious son b and there will never be /b one b in the future. And why, /b then, b was /b the passage relating to a stubborn and rebellious son b written /b in the Torah? So that b you may expound /b upon new understandings of the Torah b and receive reward /b for your learning. b Rabbi Yonatan says: /b This is not so, as b I saw /b one. I was once in a place where a stubborn and rebellious son was condemned to death, b and I /b even b sat on his grave /b after he was executed.,The Gemara raises a similar question: b In accordance with whose /b opinion b is that which is taught /b in a i baraita /i : b There has never been an idolatrous city and there will never be /b one b in the future, /b as it is virtually impossible to fulfill all the requirements that must be met in order to apply this i halakha /i . b And why, /b then, b was /b the passage relating to an idolatrous city b written /b in the Torah? So that b you may expound /b upon new understandings of the Torah b and receive reward /b for your learning. b In accordance with whose /b opinion is this? It is b in accordance with /b the opinion of b Rabbi Eliezer, as it is taught /b in a i baraita /i that b Rabbi Eliezer says: Any city that has even one i mezuza /i /b or any other sacred scroll b cannot become an idolatrous city. /b It is difficult to imagine an entire city without even one i mezuza /i .,The Gemara asks: b What is the reason /b that a city that has even one i mezuza /i cannot become an idolatrous city? The Gemara answers: b The verse states: “And you shall gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the open space of the city, and shall burn with fire /b both the city and the entire plunder taken in it” (Deuteronomy 13:17). b And since if there is a i mezuza /i /b there b it is impossible /b to burn all the contents of the city, b as it is written: /b “And you shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their i asherim /i with fire… b This you shall not do so to the Lord your God” /b (Deuteronomy 12:3–4). It is derived from this verse that it is prohibited to destroy a sacred item such as a i mezuza /i . Therefore, in a city that has even one i mezuza /i , it is impossible to fulfill the i halakhot /i of an idolatrous city, as not all of its contents may be burned. b Rabbi Yonatan says: /b This is not so, as b I /b once b saw /b an idolatrous city that was condemned to destruction, b and I /b even b sat on its ruins. /b ,The Gemara asks another similar question: b In accordance with whose /b opinion b is that which is taught /b in a i baraita /i : b There has never been a house afflicted /b with leprosy of the house b and there will never be /b one b in the future. And why, /b then, b was /b the passage relating to leprosy of the house b written /b in the Torah? So that b you may expound /b upon new understandings of the Torah b and receive reward /b for your learning. b In accordance with whose /b opinion is this? It is b in accordance with /b the opinion of b Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Shimon, as we learned /b in a mishna ( i Nega’im /i 12:3) that b Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Shimon, says: A house never becomes impure /b with leprosy b until /b a mark b about the size of two split beans is seen on two stones in two walls /b that form b a corner /b between them, the mark being b about two split beans in length and about one split bean in width. /b It is difficult to imagine that such a precise situation will ever occur.,The Gemara asks: b What is the reason /b for the statement b of Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Shimon, /b that a house does not become impure unless it has a mark precisely in the corner? The verse states: “And he shall look at the leprous mark, and, behold, if the leprous mark be in the walls of the house, in greenish or reddish depressions, which in sight are lower than the wall” (Leviticus 14:37). In one part of the verse b it is written “wall,” and /b in another part of the verse b it is written “walls.” Which wall is like /b two b walls? You must say this is a corner. /b , b It is taught /b in a i baraita /i : b Rabbi Eliezer, son of Rabbi Tzadok, says: There was a place in the area of Gaza, and it was called the leprous ruin; /b that is to say, it was the ruin of a house that had been afflicted with leprosy. Apparently, then, leprosy of the house has existed. b Rabbi Shimon of the village of Akko said: I once went to the Galilee and I saw a place that was being marked off /b as an impure place, b and they said /b that b stones afflicted /b with leprosy b were cast there. /b This too indicates that a house afflicted with leprosy has existed., strong MISHNA: /strong b If one of /b the parents b was without hands, or lame, or mute, or blind, or deaf, /b their son b does not become a stubborn and rebellious son, as it is stated: /b “Then shall his father and his mother lay hold of him, and bring him out to the elders of his city and to the gate of his place. And they shall say to the elders of his city: This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voices; he is a glutton and a drunkard” (Deuteronomy 21:19–20). The Sages derive: b “Then shall his father and his mother lay hold of him,” but not /b people b without hands, /b who cannot do this. b “And bring him out,” but not lame people, /b who cannot walk. b “And they shall say,” but not mutes. “This son of ours,” but not blind people, /b who cannot point to their son and say “this.” b “He will not obey our voices,” but not deaf people, /b who cannot hear whether or not he declined to obey them.,After he is brought before the elders of the city, b he is admonished before three /b people b and /b then b they flog him /b for having stolen. If b he sins again, he is judged by /b a court of b twenty-three /b judges, b but he is not stoned unless the first three /b judges before whom he had been flogged b are /b present b there, as it is stated: “This son of ours,” this is /b the son b who was /b already b flogged before you. /b , strong GEMARA: /strong The Gemara draws a conclusion from the mishna: b You /b can b learn from /b the mishna that b we require /b that b a verse /b be fulfilled precisely b as it is written, /b in strict conformity with its literal sense, and not in looser or more expansive fashion. The Gemara rejects this suggestion: There is no proof from here. b Here it is different, /b |
