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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



11246
Xenophon, Symposium, 4.29-4.35


nanBut Callias now remarked, It is your turn, Charmides, to tell us why poverty makes you feel proud. Very well, said he. So much, at least, every one admits, that assurance is preferable to fear, freedom to slavery, being the recipient of attention to being the giver of it, the confidence of one’s country to its distrust.


nanBut Callias now remarked, It is your turn, Charmides, to tell us why poverty makes you feel proud. Very well, said he. So much, at least, every one admits, that assurance is preferable to fear, freedom to slavery, being the recipient of attention to being the giver of it, the confidence of one’s country to its distrust.


nanNow, as for my situation in our commonwealth, when I was rich, I was, to begin with, in dread of some one’s digging through the wall of my house and not only getting my money but also doing me a mischief personally; in the next place, I knuckled down to the blackmailers, knowing well enough that my abilities lay more in the direction of suffering injury than of inflicting it on them. Then, too, I was for ever being ordered by the government to undergo some expenditure or other, and I never had the opportunity for foreign travel.


nanNow, as for my situation in our commonwealth, when I was rich, I was, to begin with, in dread of some one’s digging through the wall of my house and not only getting my money but also doing me a mischief personally; in the next place, I knuckled down to the blackmailers, knowing well enough that my abilities lay more in the direction of suffering injury than of inflicting it on them. Then, too, I was for ever being ordered by the government to undergo some expenditure or other, and I never had the opportunity for foreign travel.


nanNow, however, since I am stripped of my property over the border and get no income from the property in Attica , and my household effects have been sold, I stretch out and enjoy a sound sleep, I have gained the confidence of the state, I am no longer subjected to threats but do the threatening now myself; and I have the free man’s privilege of going abroad or staying here at home as I please. People now actually rise from their seats in deference to me, and rich men obsequiously give me the right of way on the street. Charmides is apparently drawing the picture of the independent voter or member of a jury.


nanNow, however, since I am stripped of my property over the border and get no income from the property in Attica, and my household effects have been sold, I stretch out and enjoy a sound sleep, I have gained the confidence of the state, I am no longer subjected to threats but do the threatening now myself; and I have the free man’s privilege of going abroad or staying here at home as I please. People now actually rise from their seats in deference to me, and rich men obsequiously give me the right of way on the street. Charmides is apparently drawing the picture of the independent voter or member of a jury.


nanNow I am like a despot; then I was clearly a slave. Then I paid a revenue to the body politic; now I live on the tribute The poor relief. that the state pays to me. Moreover, people used to vilify me, when I was wealthy, for consorting with Socrates ; but now that I have got poor, no one bothers his head about it any longer. Again, when my property was large, either the government or fate was continually making me throw some of it to the winds; but now, far from throwing anything away (for I possess nothing), I am always in expectation of acquiring something.


nanNow I am like a despot; then I was clearly a slave. Then I paid a revenue to the body politic; now I live on the tribute The poor relief. that the state pays to me. Moreover, people used to vilify me, when I was wealthy, for consorting with Socrates ; but now that I have got poor, no one bothers his head about it any longer. Again, when my property was large, either the government or fate was continually making me throw some of it to the winds; but now, far from throwing anything away (for I possess nothing), I am always in expectation of acquiring something.


nanYour prayers, also, said Callias, are doubtless to the effect that you may never be rich; and if you ever have a fine dream you sacrifice, do you not, to the deities who avert disasters? Oh, no! was the reply; I don’t go so far as that; I hazard the danger with great heroism if I have any expectation of getting something from some one.


nanYour prayers, also, said Callias, are doubtless to the effect that you may never be rich; and if you ever have a fine dream you sacrifice, do you not, to the deities who avert disasters? Oh, no! was the reply; I don’t go so far as that; I hazard the danger with great heroism if I have any expectation of getting something from some one.


nanCome, now, Antisthenes, said Socrates , take your turn and tell us how it is that with such slender means you base your pride on wealth. Because, sirs, I conceive that people’s wealth and poverty are to be found not in their real estate but in their hearts.


nanCome, now, Antisthenes, said Socrates, take your turn and tell us how it is that with such slender means you base your pride on wealth. Because, sirs, I conceive that people’s wealth and poverty are to be found not in their real estate but in their hearts.


nanFor I see many persons, not in office, who though possessors of large resources, yet look upon themselves as so poor that they bend their backs to any toil, any risk, if only they may increase their holdings; and again I know of brothers, with equal shares in their inheritance, where one of them has plenty, and more than enough to meet expenses, while the other is in utter want.


nanFor I see many persons, not in office, who though possessors of large resources, yet look upon themselves as so poor that they bend their backs to any toil, any risk, if only they may increase their holdings; and again I know of brothers, with equal shares in their inheritance, where one of them has plenty, and more than enough to meet expenses, while the other is in utter want.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

4 results
1. Plato, Protagoras, 309b (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

309b. who said that youth has highest grace in him whose beard is appearing, as now in the case of Alcibiades? Fr. Then how is the affair at present? Have you been with him just now? And how is the young man treating you? Soc. Quite well, I considered, and especially so today: for he spoke a good deal on my side, supporting me in a discussion—in fact I have only just left him. However, there is a strange thing I have to tell you: although he was present, I not merely paid him no attention, but at times forgot him altogether.
2. Xenophon, Memoirs, 2.6.24 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

2.6.24. Surely, then, it is likely that true gentlemen will share public honours too not only without harm to one another, but to their common benefit? For those who desire to win honour and to bear rule in their cities that they may have power to embezzle, to treat others with violence, to live in luxury, are bound to be unjust, unscrupulous, incapable of unity.
3. Xenophon, Symposium, 1.1, 2.17, 4.15-4.16, 4.19, 4.23-4.26, 4.30-4.35, 4.41-4.42, 5.5-5.7 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

1.1. To my mind it is worth while to relate not only the serious acts of great and good men but also what they do in their lighter moods. I should like to narrate an experience of mine that gives me this conviction. 2.17. This raised a general laugh; but Socrates , with a perfectly grave expression on his face, said: You are laughing at me, are you? Is it because I want to exercise to better my health? Or because I want to take more pleasure in my food and my sleep? Or is it because I am eager for such exercises as these, not like the long-distance runners, who develop their legs at the expense of their shoulders, nor like the prize-fighters, who develop their shoulders but become thin-legged, but rather with a view to giving my body a symmetrical development by exercising it in every part? 4.15. And so, Callias, if you are proud of your ability to make people more righteous, I have a better right than you to claim that I can influence men toward every sort of virtue. For since we handsome men exert a certain inspiration upon the amorous, we make them more generous in money matters, more strenuous and heroic amid dangers, yes, and more modest and self-controlled also; for they feel abashed about the very things that they want most. 4.16. Madness is in those people, too, who do not elect the handsome men as generals; I certainly would go through fire with Cleinias, and I know that you would, also, with me. Therefore, Socrates , do not puzzle any more over the question whether or not my beauty will be of any benefit to men. 4.19. How now? exclaimed Socrates . You boast as though you actually thought yourself a handsomer man than me. of course, was Critobulus’s reply; otherwise I should be the ugliest of all the Satyrs ever on the stage. Now Socrates , as fortune would have it, really resembled these creatures. This is regarded by some as a comment interpolated in the text, though doubtless true enough. Plato ( Symp. 215 A, B, E; 216 C, D; 221 D, E; cf. 222 D) represents Alcibiades as likening Socrates to the Sileni and particularly to the Satyr Marsyas. Vase paintings and statues give an idea of the Greek conception of their coarse features. They regularly formed the chorus in the Satyr-plays that were given in connection with tragedies. 4.23. For my part, Socrates , said Hermogenes, I do not regard it as at all like you to countece such a mad passion of love in Critobulus. What? Do you suppose, asked Socrates , that this condition has arisen since he began associating with me? If not, when did it? Do you not notice that the soft down is just beginning to grow down in front of his ears, while that of Cleinias is already creeping up the nape of his neck? Well, then, this hot flame of his was kindled in the days when they used to go to school together. 4.24. It was the discovery of this that caused his father to put him into my hands, in the hope that I might do him some good. And without question he is already much improved. For awhile ago he was like those who look at the Gorgons—he would gaze at Cleinias with a fixed and stony stare and would never leave his presence; but now I have seen him actually close his eyes in a wink. 4.25. But to tell you the truth, gentlemen, he continued, by Heaven! it does look to me—to speak confidentially—as if he had also kissed Cleinias; and there is nothing more terribly potent than this at kindling the fires of passion. For it is insatiable and holds out seductive hopes. 4.26. For this reason I maintain that one who intends to possess the power of self-control must refrain from kissing those in the bloom of beauty. 4.30. Now, as for my situation in our commonwealth, when I was rich, I was, to begin with, in dread of some one’s digging through the wall of my house and not only getting my money but also doing me a mischief personally; in the next place, I knuckled down to the blackmailers, knowing well enough that my abilities lay more in the direction of suffering injury than of inflicting it on them. Then, too, I was for ever being ordered by the government to undergo some expenditure or other, and I never had the opportunity for foreign travel. 4.31. Now, however, since I am stripped of my property over the border and get no income from the property in Attica , and my household effects have been sold, I stretch out and enjoy a sound sleep, I have gained the confidence of the state, I am no longer subjected to threats but do the threatening now myself; and I have the free man’s privilege of going abroad or staying here at home as I please. People now actually rise from their seats in deference to me, and rich men obsequiously give me the right of way on the street. Charmides is apparently drawing the picture of the independent voter or member of a jury. 4.32. Now I am like a despot; then I was clearly a slave. Then I paid a revenue to the body politic; now I live on the tribute The poor relief. that the state pays to me. Moreover, people used to vilify me, when I was wealthy, for consorting with Socrates ; but now that I have got poor, no one bothers his head about it any longer. Again, when my property was large, either the government or fate was continually making me throw some of it to the winds; but now, far from throwing anything away (for I possess nothing), I am always in expectation of acquiring something. 4.33. Your prayers, also, said Callias, are doubtless to the effect that you may never be rich; and if you ever have a fine dream you sacrifice, do you not, to the deities who avert disasters? Oh, no! was the reply; I don’t go so far as that; I hazard the danger with great heroism if I have any expectation of getting something from some one. 4.34. Come, now, Antisthenes, said Socrates , take your turn and tell us how it is that with such slender means you base your pride on wealth. Because, sirs, I conceive that people’s wealth and poverty are to be found not in their real estate but in their hearts. 4.35. For I see many persons, not in office, who though possessors of large resources, yet look upon themselves as so poor that they bend their backs to any toil, any risk, if only they may increase their holdings; and again I know of brothers, with equal shares in their inheritance, where one of them has plenty, and more than enough to meet expenses, while the other is in utter want. 4.41. For whenever I feel an inclination to indulge my appetite, I do not buy fancy articles at the market (for they come high), but I draw on the store-house of my soul. And it goes a long way farther toward producing enjoyment when I take food only after awaiting the craving for it than when I partake of one of these fancy dishes, like this fine Thasian wine that fortune has put in my way and I am drinking without the promptings of thirst. 4.42. Yes, and it is natural that those whose eyes are set on frugality should be more honest than those whose eyes are fixed on money-making. For those who are most contented with what they have are least likely to covet what belongs to others. 5.5. Soc. Do you know the reason why we need eyes? Crit. Obviously to see with. In that case, it would appear without further ado that my eyes are finer ones than yours. How so? Because, while yours see only straight ahead, mine, by bulging out as they do, see also to the sides. Crit. Do you mean to say that a crab is better equipped visually than any other creature? Soc. Absolutely; for its eyes are also better set to insure strength. 5.6. Crit. Well, let that pass; but whose nose is finer, yours or mine? Soc. Mine, I consider, granting that Providence made us noses to smell with. For your nostrils look down toward the ground, but mine are wide open and turned outward so that I can catch scents from all about. But how do you make a snub nose handsomer than a straight one? Soc. For the reason that it does not put a barricade between the eyes but allows them unobstructed vision of whatever they desire to see; whereas a high nose, as if in despite, has walled the eyes off one from the other. 5.7. As for the mouth, said Critobulus, I concede that point. For if it is created for the purpose of biting off food, you could bite off a far bigger mouthful than I could. And don’t you think that your kiss is also the more tender because you have thick lips? Soc. According to your argument, it would seem that I have a mouth more ugly even than an ass’s. But do you not reckon it a proof of my superior beauty that the River Nymphs, goddesses as they are, bear as their offspring the Seileni, who resemble me more closely than they do you?
4. Aeschines, Letters, 1.158 (4th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)



Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
antigonos of karystos Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
antisthenes, and aristippus Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 333
antisthenes, and rejection of pleasure Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333
antisthenes, xenophons portrayal of Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333
antisthenes Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333
aristippus of cyrene, antisthenes and Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 333
frugality (εὐτέλεια\u200e) Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332
homosexuality Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
katapugon Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
kinaidos Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
nemea Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
plato and platonism Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
pleasure (ἡδονή\u200e), in antisthenes Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333
plutarch Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
poverty Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333
prostitutes, male' Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
ridicule and laughter Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
satire Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
self-mastery/self-restraint (enkrateia), antisthenes and Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332
seriocomic Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
sileni Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
socrates (philosopher) Graverini, Literature and Identity in The Golden Ass of Apuleius (2012) 126
wealth, in antisthenes Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333
xenophon, on sokrates Eidinow, Oracles, Curses, and Risk Among the Ancient Greeks (2007) 338
xenophon, portrayal of antisthenes Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 332, 333