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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10882
Thucydides, The History Of The Peloponnesian War, 7.48


nanThis was the opinion of Demosthenes. Nicias, without denying the bad state of their affairs, was unwilling to avow their weakness, or to have it reported to the enemy that the Athenians in full council were openly voting for retreat; for in that case they would be much less likely to effect it when they wanted without discovery. 2 Moreover, his own particular information still gave him reason to hope that the affairs of the enemy would soon be in a worse state than their own, if the Athenians persevered in the siege; as they would wear out the Syracusans by want of money, especially with the more extensive command of the sea now given them by their present navy. Besides this, there was a party in Syracuse who wished to betray the city to the Athenians, and kept sending him messages and telling him not to raise the siege. 3 Accordingly, knowing this and really waiting because he hesitated between the two courses and wished to see his way more clearly, in his public speech on this occasion he refused to lead off the army, saying he was sure the Athenians would never approve of their returning without a vote of theirs. Those who would vote upon their conduct, instead of judging the facts as eye-witnesses like themselves and not from what they might hear from hostile critics, would simply be guided by the calumnies of the first clever speaker; 4 while many, indeed most, of the soldiers on the spot, who now so loudly proclaimed the danger of their position, when they reached Athens would proclaim just as loudly the opposite, and would say that their generals had been bribed to betray them and return. For himself, therefore, who knew the Athenian temper, sooner than perish under a dishonorable charge and by an unjust sentence at the hands of the Athenians, he would rather take his chance and die, if die he must, a soldier's death at the hand of the enemy. 5 Besides, after all, the Syracusans were in a worse case than themselves. What with paying mercenaries, spending upon fortified posts, and now for a full year maintaining a large navy, they were already at a loss and would soon be at a standstill: they had already spent two thousand talents and incurred heavy debts besides, and could not lose even ever so small a fraction of their present force through not paying it, without ruin to their cause; depending as they did more upon mercenaries than upon soldiers obliged to serve, like their own. 6 He therefore said that they ought to stay and carry on the siege, and not depart defeated in point of money, in which they were much superior.


nannan, This was the opinion of Demosthenes. Nicias, without denying the bad state of their affairs, was unwilling to avow their weakness, or to have it reported to the enemy that the Athenians in full council were openly voting for retreat; for in that case they would be much less likely to effect it when they wanted without discovery. ,Moreover, his own particular information still gave him reason to hope that the affairs of the enemy would soon be in a worse state than their own, if the Athenians persevered in the siege; as they would wear out the Syracusans by want of money, especially with the more extensive command of the sea now given them by their present navy. Besides this, there was a party in Syracuse who wished to betray the city to the Athenians, and kept sending him messages and telling him not to raise the siege. ,Accordingly, knowing this and really waiting because he hesitated between the two courses and wished to see his way more clearly, in his public speech on this occasion he refused to lead off the army, saying he was sure the Athenians would never approve of their returning without a vote of theirs. Those who would vote upon their conduct, instead of judging the facts as eye-witnesses like themselves and not from what they might hear from hostile critics, would simply be guided by the calumnies of the first clever speaker; ,while many, indeed most, of the soldiers on the spot, who now so loudly proclaimed the danger of their position, when they reached Athens would proclaim just as loudly the opposite, and would say that their generals had been bribed to betray them and return. For himself, therefore, who knew the Athenian temper, sooner than perish under a dishonorable charge and by an unjust sentence at the hands of the Athenians, he would rather take his chance and die, if die he must, a soldier's death at the hand of the enemy. ,Besides, after all, the Syracusans were in a worse case than themselves. What with paying mercenaries, spending upon fortified posts, and now for a full year maintaining a large navy, they were already at a loss and would soon be at a standstill: they had already spent two thousand talents and incurred heavy debts besides, and could not lose even ever so small a fraction of their present force through not paying it, without ruin to their cause; depending as they did more upon mercenaries than upon soldiers obliged to serve, like their own. ,He therefore said that they ought to stay and carry on the siege, and not depart defeated in point of money, in which they were much superior.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

5 results
1. Thucydides, The History of The Peloponnesian War, 1.140.4-1.140.5, 2.65, 2.90.4, 3.51.1, 4.28, 4.65, 5.71, 7.43.1, 7.48.4, 7.49 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

1.140.4. I hope that you will none of you think that we shall be going to war for a trifle if we refuse to revoke the Megara decree, which appears in front of their complaints, and the revocation of which is to save us from war, or let any feeling of self-reproach linger in your minds, as if you went to war for slight cause. 1.140.5. Why, this trifle contains the whole seal and trial of your resolution. If you give way, you will instantly have to meet some greater demand, as having been frightened into obedience in the first instance; while a firm refusal will make them clearly understand that they must treat you more as equals. 2.90.4. The Peloponnesians seeing him coasting along with his ships in single file, and by this inside the gulf and close in shore as they so much wished, at one signal tacked suddenly and bore down in line at their best speed on the Athenians, hoping to cut off the whole squadron. 3.51.1. During the same summer, after the reduction of Lesbos, the Athenians under Nicias, son of Niceratus, made an expedition against the island of Minos, which lies off Megara and was used as a fortified post by the Megarians, who had built a tower upon it.
2. Plutarch, Comparison of Fabius With Pericles, 1.4 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

3. Plutarch, Coriolanus, 21.1 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

4. Plutarch, Nicias, 5.1, 7.4-7.5, 10.8, 14.4, 20.6, 20.8, 21.4 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

5. Plutarch, Pericles, 9.1-9.2, 11.2, 11.4, 15.1-15.2, 27.2, 31.1 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

9.1. Thucydides describes In the encomium on Pericles, Thuc. 2.65.9 . the administration of Pericles as rather aristocratic,— in name a democracy, but in fact a government by the greatest citizen. But many others say that the people was first led on by him into allotments of public lands, festival-grants, and distributions of fees for public services, thereby falling into bad habits, and becoming luxurious and wanton under the influence of his public measures, instead of frugal and self-sufficing. Let us therefore examine in detail the reason for this change in him. The discussion of this change in Pericles from the methods of a demagogue to the leadership described by Thucydides, continues through chapter 15. 9.2. In the beginning, as has been said, pitted as he was against the reputation of Cimon, he tried to ingratiate himself with the people. And since he was the inferior in wealth and property, by means of which Cimon would win over the poor,—furnishing a dinner every day to any Athenian who wanted it, bestowing raiment on the elderly men, and removing the fences from his estates that whosoever wished might pluck the fruit,—Pericles, outdone in popular arts of this sort, had recourse to the distribution of the people’s own wealth. This was on the advice of Damonides, of the deme Oa, as Aristotle has stated. Aristot. Const. Ath. 27.4 . 11.2. He, being less of a warrior than Cimon, and more of a forensic speaker and statesman, by keeping watch and ward in the city, and by wrestling bouts with Pericles on the bema, soon brought the administration into even poise. He would not suffer the party of the Good and True, as they called themselves, to be scattered up and down and blended with the populace, as heretofore, the weight of their character being thus obscured by numbers, but by culling them out and assembling them into one body, he made their collective influence, thus become weighty, as it were a counterpoise in the balance. 11.4. At this time, therefore, particularly, Pericles gave the reins to the people, and made his policy one of pleasing them, ever devising some sort of a pageant in the town for the masses, or a feast, or a procession, amusing them like children with not uncouth delights, An iambic trimeter from an unknown source. and sending out sixty triremes annually, on which large numbers of the citizens sailed about for eight months under pay, practising at the same time and acquiring the art of seamanship. 15.1. Thus, then, seeing that political differences were entirely remitted and the city had become a smooth surface, as it were, and altogether united, he brought under his own control Athens and all the issues dependent on the Athenians,—tributes, armies, triremes, the islands, the sea, the vast power derived from Hellenes, vast also from Barbarians, and a supremacy that was securely hedged about with subject nations, royal friendships, and dynastic alliances. 15.2. But then he was no longer the same man as before, nor alike submissive to the people and ready to yield and give in to the desires of the multitude as a steersman to the breezes. Nay rather, forsaking his former lax and sometimes rather effeminate management of the people, as it were a flowery and soft melody, he struck the high and clear note of an aristocratic and kingly statesmanship, and employing it for the best interests of all in a direct and undeviating fashion 27.2. And since it was a hard task for him to restrain the Athenians in their impatience of delay and eagerness to fight, he separated his whole force into eight divisions, had them draw lots, and allowed the division which got the white bean to feast and take their ease, while the others did the fighting. And this is the reason, as they say, why those who have had a gay and festive time call it a white day, —from the white bean. 31.1. Well, then, whatever the original ground for enacting the decree,—and it is no easy matter to determine this,—the fact that it was not rescinded all men alike lay to the charge of Pericles. Only, some say that he persisted in his refusal in a lofty spirit and with a clear perception of the best interests of the city, regarding the injunction laid upon it as a test of its submissiveness, and its compliance as a confession of weakness; while others hold that it was rather with a sort of arrogance and love of strife, as well as for the display of his power, that he scornfully defied the Lacedaemonians.


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
alcibiades, and nicias Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
alcibiades Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
anecdote Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
athenians, and alcibiades Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
athenians, and nicias Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
athenians Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
athens, athenians Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
athens Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
audience, the subjects interaction with his Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
building programme Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
characterisation, of the subjects Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
cleon Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114; Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
cognition Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
community, the subject and his Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
corcyra Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
coriolanus, in dionysius of halicarnassus Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
coriolanus Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
cowardice Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
criticism, contemporary to the story narrated, exercised by onlookers Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
criticism, plutarchs Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
criticism Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
death, of the subjects Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
death Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
debate Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
decisions, of the subjects Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
dionysius of halicarnassus Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
emotions Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
envy Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
explanations Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
feelings Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
generals Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
herodotus Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
kosmopolites, lacedaemonius, son of cimon Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
megara, megarian Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
minds, internal Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
motivation, motives Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
nicias, and sicilian expedition Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
nicias, athenian Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
nicias, in thucydides Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
nicias Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163; Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 395
pagondas Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 395
passions Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
pericles Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
plato Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
plemmyrium Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 395
psychology, psychological, plutarchs interest in Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
psychology, psychological Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
romans, and coriolanus Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
romans Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
sicilians/sicily Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
sicily Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
social/society, dialogue of individual with Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
social/society, plutarchs interest in Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
social/society, plutarchs reconstruction of Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
social/society Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
sources, plutarchs use or criticism of Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
sources Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 163
sparta(ns) Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
sparta, spartan Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114
syracusans/syracuse Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86
thucydides, son of melesias, audience, reader' Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 395
thucydides Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114; Chrysanthou, Plutarch's 'Parallel Lives': Narrative Technique and Moral Judgement (2018) 86, 163
tyrant Athanassaki and Titchener, Plutarch's Cities (2022) 114