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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10882
Thucydides, The History Of The Peloponnesian War, 6.8.4


καὶ ὁ Νικίας ἀκούσιος μὲν ᾑρημένος ἄρχειν, νομίζων δὲ τὴν πόλιν οὐκ ὀρθῶς βεβουλεῦσθαι, ἀλλὰ προφάσει βραχείᾳ καὶ εὐπρεπεῖ τῆς Σικελίας ἁπάσης, μεγάλου ἔργου, ἐφίεσθαι, παρελθὼν ἀποτρέψαι ἐβούλετο, καὶ παρῄνει τοῖς Ἀθηναίοις τοιάδε.and Nicias, who had been chosen to the command against his will, and who thought that the state was not well advised, but upon a slight and specious pretext was aspiring to the conquest of the whole of Sicily, a great matter to achieve, came forward in the hope of diverting the Athenians from the enterprise, and gave them the following counsel:—


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

2 results
1. Herodotus, Histories, 7.148-7.152, 7.149.3 (5th cent. BCE - 5th cent. BCE)

7.148. So the spies were sent back after they had seen all and returned to Europe. After sending the spies, those of the Greeks who had sworn alliance against the Persian next sent messengers to Argos. ,Now this is what the Argives say of their own part in the matter. They were informed from the first that the foreigner was stirring up war against Hellas. When they learned that the Greeks would attempt to gain their aid against the Persian, they sent messengers to Delphi to inquire of the god how it would be best for them to act, for six thousand of them had been lately slain by a Lacedaemonian army and Cleomenes son of Anaxandrides its general. For this reason, they said, the messengers were sent. ,The priestess gave this answer to their question: quote type="oracle" l met="dact"Hated by your neighbors, dear to the immortals, /l lCrouch with a lance in rest, like a warrior fenced in his armor, /l lGuarding your head from the blow, and the head will shelter the body. /l /quote This answer had already been uttered by the priestess when the envoys arrived in Argos and entered the council chamber to speak as they were charged. ,Then the Argives answered to what had been said that they would do as was asked of them if they might first make a thirty years peace with Lacedaemonia and if the command of half the allied power were theirs. It was their right to have the full command, but they would nevertheless be content with half. 7.149. This, they say, was the answer of their council, although the oracle forbade them to make the alliance with the Greeks; furthermore, they, despite their fear of the oracle, were eager to secure a thirty years treaty so that their children might have time in those years to grow to be men. If there were to be no such treaty—so they reasoned—then, if after the evil that had befallen them the Persian should deal them yet another blow, it was to be feared that they would be at the Lacedaemonians' mercy. ,Then those of the envoys who were Spartans replied to the demands of the council, saying that they would refer the question of the truce to their own government at home; as for the command, however, they themselves had been commissioned to say that the Spartans had two kings, and the Argives but one. Now it was impossible to deprive either Spartan of his command, but there was nothing to prevent the Argive from having the same right of voting as their two had. ,At that, say the Argives, they decided that the Spartans' covetousness was past all bearing and that it was better to be ruled by the foreigners than give way to the Lacedaemonians. They then bade the envoys depart from the land of Argos before sunset, for they would otherwise be treated as enemies. 7.150. Such is the Argives' account of this matter, but there is another story told in Hellas, namely that before Xerxes set forth on his march against Hellas, he sent a herald to Argos, who said on his coming (so the story goes), ,“Men of Argos, this is the message to you from King Xerxes. Perses our forefather had, as we believe, Perseus son of Danae for his father, and Andromeda daughter of Cepheus for his mother; if that is so, then we are descended from your nation. In all right and reason we should therefore neither march against the land of our forefathers, nor should you become our enemies by aiding others or do anything but abide by yourselves in peace. If all goes as I desire, I will hold none in higher esteem than you.” ,The Argives were strongly moved when they heard this, and although they made no promise immediately and demanded no share, they later, when the Greeks were trying to obtain their support, did make the claim, because they knew that the Lacedaemonians would refuse to grant it, and that they would thus have an excuse for taking no part in the war. 7.151. This is borne out, some of the Greeks say, by the tale of a thing which happened many years afterwards. It happened that while Athenian envoys, Callias son of Hipponicus, and the rest who had come up with him, were at Susa, called the Memnonian, about some other business, the Argives also had at this same time sent envoys to Susa, asking of Xerxes' son Artoxerxes whether the friendship which they had forged with Xerxes still held good, as they desired, or whether he considered them as his enemies. Artoxerxes responded to this that it did indeed hold good and that he believed no city to be a better friend to him than Argos.” 7.152. Now, whether it is true that Xerxes sent a herald with such a message to Argos, and that the Argive envoys came up to Susa and questioned Artoxerxes about their friendship, I cannot say with exactness, nor do I now declare that I consider anything true except what the Argives themselves say. ,This, however, I know full well, namely if all men should carry their own private troubles to market for barter with their neighbors, there would not be a single one who, when he had looked into the troubles of other men, would not be glad to carry home again what he had brought. ,The conduct of the Argives was accordingly not utterly shameful. As for myself, although it is my business to set down that which is told me, to believe it is none at all of my business. This I ask the reader to hold true for the whole of my history, for there is another tale current, according to which it would seem that it was the Argives who invited the Persian into Hellas, because the war with the Lacedaemonians was going badly, and they would prefer anything to their present distresses.
2. Thucydides, The History of The Peloponnesian War, 1.121.3, 1.122.1, 2.65, 3.37, 3.45.7, 3.82.8, 4.1, 4.17-4.18, 4.20, 4.21.2, 4.27.5, 4.28, 4.28.3, 4.41.3-4.41.4, 4.59-4.65, 4.65.4, 5.14.3, 5.16, 6.6.1, 6.8.2, 6.15.2, 6.18.6, 6.19.2, 6.24.1, 6.24.3, 7.86.5, 8.2.4 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

1.121.3. which they possess shall be raised by us from our respective antecedent resources, and from the monies at Olympia and Delphi . A loan from these enables us to seduce their foreign sailors by the offer of higher pay. For the power of Athens is more mercenary than national; while ours will not be exposed to the same risk, as its strength lies more in men than in money. 1.122.1. We have also other ways of carrying on the war, such as revolt of their allies, the surest method of depriving them of their revenues, which are the source of their strength, and establishment of fortified positions in their country, and various operations which cannot be foreseen at present. For war of all things proceeds least upon definite rules, but draws principally upon itself for contrivances to meet an emergency; and in such cases the party who faces the struggle and keeps his temper best meets with most security, and he who loses his temper about it with correspondent disaster. 3.45.7. In fine, it is impossible to prevent, and only great simplicity can hope to prevent, human nature doing what it has once set its mind upon, by force of law or by any other deterrent force whatsoever. 3.82.8. The cause of all these evils was the lust for power arising from greed and ambition; and from these passions proceeded the violence of parties once engaged in contention. The leaders in the cities, each provided with the fairest professions, on the one side with the cry of political equality of the people, on the other of a moderate aristocracy, sought prizes for themselves in those public interests which they pretended to cherish, and, recoiling from no means in their struggles for ascendancy, engaged in the direct excesses; in their acts of vengeance they went to even greater lengths, not stopping at what justice or the good of the state demanded, but making the party caprice of the moment their only standard, and invoking with equal readiness the condemnation of an unjust verdict or the authority of the strong arm to glut the animosities of the hour. Thus religion was in honor with neither party; but the use of fair phrases to arrive at guilty ends was in high reputation. Meanwhile the moderate part of the citizens perished between the two, either for not joining in the quarrel, or because envy would not suffer them to escape. 4.21.2. The Athenians, however, having the men on the island, thought that the treaty would be ready for them whenever they chose to make it, and grasped at something further. 4.41.3. The Lacedaemonians, hitherto without experience of incursions or a warfare of the kind, finding the Helots deserting, and fearing the march of revolution in their country, began to be seriously uneasy, and in spite of their unwillingness to betray this to the Athenians began to send envoys to Athens, and tried to recover Pylos and the prisoners. 4.41.4. The Athenians, however, kept grasping at more, and dismissed envoy after envoy without their having effected anything. Such was the history of the affair of Pylos . 4.65.4. So thoroughly had the present prosperity persuaded the citizens that nothing could withstand them, and that they could achieve what was possible and impracticable alike, with means ample or inadequate it mattered not. The secret of this was their general extraordinary success, which made them confuse their strength with their hopes. 5.14.3. Lacedaemon, on the other hand, found the event of the war falsify her notion that a few years would suffice for the overthrow of the power of the Athenians by the devastation of their land. She had suffered on the island a disaster hitherto unknown at Sparta ; she saw her country plundered from Pylos and Cythera ; the Helots were deserting, and she was in constant apprehension that those who remained in Peloponnese would rely upon those outside and take advantage of the situation to renew their old attempts at revolution. 6.6.1. Such is the list of the peoples, Hellenic and barbarian, inhabiting Sicily, and such the magnitude of the island which the Athenians were now bent upon invading; being ambitious in real truth of conquering the whole, although they had also the specious design of succouring their kindred and other allies in the island. 6.8.2. The Athenians held an assembly, and after hearing from the Egestaeans and their own envoys a report, as attractive as it was untrue, upon the state of affairs generally, and in particular as to the money, of which, it was said, there was abundance in the temples and the treasury, voted to send sixty ships to Sicily, under the command of Alcibiades, son of Clinias, Nicias, son of Niceratus, and Lamachus, son of Xenophanes, who were appointed with full powers; they were to help the Egestaeans against the Selinuntines, to restore Leontini upon gaining any advantage in the war, and to order all other matters in Sicily as they should deem best for the interests of Athens . 6.15.2. By far the warmest advocate of the expedition was, however, Alcibiades, son of Clinias, who wished to thwart Nicias both as his political opponent and also because of the attack he had made upon him in his speech, and who was, besides, exceedingly ambitious of a command by which he hoped to reduce Sicily and Carthage, and personally to gain in wealth and reputation by means of his successes. 6.18.6. And do not let the do-nothing policy which Nicias advocates, or his setting of the young against the old, turn you from your purpose, but in the good old fashion by which our fathers, old and young together, by their united counsels brought our affairs to their present height, do you endeavour still to advance them; understanding that neither youth nor old age can do anything the one without the other, but that levity, sobriety, and deliberate judgment are strongest when united, and that, by sinking into inaction, the city, like everything else, will wear itself out, and its skill in everything decay; while each fresh struggle will give it fresh experience, and make it more used to defend itself not in word but in deed. 6.19.2. Nicias, perceiving that it would be now useless to try to deter them by the old line of argument, but thinking that he might perhaps alter their resolution by the extravagance of his estimates, came forward a second time and spoke as follows:— 6.24.1. With this Nicias concluded, thinking that he should either disgust the Athenians by the magnitude of the undertaking, or, if obliged to sail on the expedition, would thus do so in the safest way possible. 6.24.3. All alike fell in love with the enterprise. The older men thought that they would either subdue the places against which they were to sail, or at all events, with so large a force, meet with no disaster; those in the prime of life felt a longing for foreign sights and spectacles, and had no doubt that they should come safe home again; while the idea of the common people and the soldiery was to earn wages at the moment, and make conquests that would supply a never-ending fund of pay for the future. 7.86.5. This or the like was the cause of the death of a man who, of all the Hellenes in my time, least deserved such a fate, seeing that the whole course of his life had been regulated with strict attention to virtue. 8.2.4. With these reasons for confidence in every quarter, the Lacedaemonians now resolved to throw themselves without reserve into the war considering that, once it was happily terminated, they would be finally delivered from such dangers as that which would have threatened them from Athens, if she had become mistress of Sicily, and that the overthrow of the Athenians would leave them in quiet enjoyment of the supremacy over all Hellas .


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
"greed, lack of" Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
"historiography, classical" Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
"morality, traditional" Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
alcibiades, and athenian decision in favour of sicilian expedition Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191, 200
alcibiades, and desire Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
alcibiades, vs. nicias Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
archidamus Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
athens and athenians, vs. spartans Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
cleophon Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 206
corcyra Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 171
corinthians (speeches of), at congress of spartan allies Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
deceit Levison, The Greek Life of Adam and Eve (2023) 419
desire, athenian…(mostly for sicily) Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
diodotus Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
foresight Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
greed Levison, The Greek Life of Adam and Eve (2023) 419
hermocrates, on athenian concern with sicily Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
integrity Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
intelligence Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
irrational impulses, and human nature Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191, 200
irrational impulses, athenians beset by Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
leadership Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
loyalty Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
moderation Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
mytilene, secession of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
nature (φύσις), vs. national character Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
nicias, and athenian decision for sicilian expedition Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191, 200
nicias Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213; Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 202
peace of nicias Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
pericles Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
persia, persian war Levison, The Greek Life of Adam and Eve (2023) 419
piety Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
poor Levison, The Greek Life of Adam and Eve (2023) 419
power lust Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
rule/ruler Levison, The Greek Life of Adam and Eve (2023) 419
self-seeking Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
sicilian debate Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 206
sicilian expedition, decision for, and diodotus Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
sicilian expedition, decision for, and euripides on ἔρως Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
sicilian expedition, decision for, and transpersonal forces Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
sicilian expedition, decision for, and wish to rule sicily in its entirety Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
sicilian greeks' Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 202
simplicity Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
sparta and spartans, and hope Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
thucydides Hau, Moral History from Herodotus to Diodorus Siculus (2017) 213
ἐλπίς (hope or expectation) and ἐλπίζω and εὔελπις, and sicilian expedition Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 200
ἐλπίς (hope or expectation) and ἐλπίζω and εὔελπις, spartans affected by Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191
ἔρως, and sicilian expedition Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 191, 200