Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database

10882

Thucydides, The History Of The Peloponnesian War, 3.42.3

χαλεπώτατοι δὲ καὶ οἱ ἐπὶ χρήμασι προσκατηγοροῦντες ἐπίδειξίν τινα. εἰ μὲν γὰρ ἀμαθίαν κατῃτιῶντο, ὁ μὴ πείσας ἀξυνετώτερος ἂν δόξας εἶναι ἢ ἀδικώτερος ἀπεχώρει: ἀδικίας δ’ ἐπιφερομένης πείσας τε ὕποπτος γίγνεται καὶ μὴ τυχὼν μετὰ ἀξυνεσίας καὶ ἄδικος. What is still more intolerable is to accuse a speaker of making a display in order to be paid for it. If ignorance only were imputed, an unsuccessful speaker might retire with a reputation for honesty, if not for wisdom; while the charge of dishonesty makes him suspected, if successful, and thought, if defeated, not only a fool but a rogue.

Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

7 results
1. Aristophanes, Knights, 168 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE) 168. ἐγώ; σὺ μέντοι: κοὐδέπω γε πάνθ' ὁρᾷς.
2. Aristophanes, Peace, 1290 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE) 1290. ἐγώ; σὺ μέντοι νὴ Δί'. υἱὸς Λαμάχου.
3. Thucydides, The History of The Peloponnesian War, 3.38.2, 3.38.4, 3.42.1, 3.42.5, 3.43.2, 3.43.4 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE) 3.38.2. Such a man must plainly either have such confidence in his rhetoric as to adventure to prove that what has been once for all decided is still undetermined, or be bribed to try to delude us by elaborate sophisms. 3.38.4. The persons to blame are you who are so foolish as to institute these contests; who go to see an oration as you would to see a sight, take your facts on hearsay, judge of the practicability of a project by the wit of its advocates, and trust for the truth as to past events not to the fact which you saw more than to the clever strictures which you heard; 3.42.1. ‘I do not blame the persons who have reopened the case of the Mitylenians, nor do I approve the protests which we have heard against important questions being frequently debated. I think the two things most opposed to good counsel are haste and passion; haste usually goes hand in hand with folly, passion with coarseness and narrowness of mind. 3.42.5. The good citizen ought to triumph not by frightening his opponents but by beating them fairly in argument; and a wise city without over-distinguishing its best advisers, will nevertheless not deprive them of their due, and far from punishing an unlucky counsellor will not even regard him as disgraced. 3.43.2. Plain good advice has thus come to be no less suspected than bad; and the advocate of the most monstrous measures is not more obliged to use deceit to gain the people, than the best counsellor is to lie in order to be believed. 3.43.4. Still, considering the magnitude of the interests involved, and the position of affairs, we orators must make it our business to look a little further than you who judge offhand; especially as we, your advisers, are responsible, while you, our audience, are not so.
4. Xenophon, Memoirs, 4.2.5 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE) 4.2.5. This exordium might be adapted so as to suit candidates for the office of public physician. They might begin their speeches in this strain: Men of Athens, I have never yet studied medicine, nor sought to find a teacher among our physicians; for I have constantly avoided learning anything from the physicians, and even the appearance of having studied their art. Nevertheless I ask you to appoint me to the office of a physician, and I will endeavour to learn by experimenting on you. The exordium set all the company laughing.
5. Aeschines, Letters, 2.20, 2.34, 3.182 (4th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)
6. Theon Aelius, Exercises, 5 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)
7. Aeschines, Or., 2.20, 2.34, 3.182

Subjects of this text:

subject	book bibliographic info
aeschines	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
antipater	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
antiphon,anti-rhetoric	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
aristophanes	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
attic oratory	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
cleon	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168, 250
deception,and deliberation	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
deception,and democratic constitution	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
deception,association with rhetoric	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
deception,suspicion of	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
democracy,athenian,and noble lies	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
democracy,athenian,thucydides depiction of	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
demosthenes,on logocentricity	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes,representation of deceit	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes,works,on the false embassy	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes vii	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
dinarchus of corinth (orator)	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
diodotus	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168, 250
gorgias,and ekplexis	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
gorgias,and thucydides	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
hiatus	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
honorific crowns	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
kunst,karl v	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
noble lie	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
philocrates	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
rhetoric,as flattery	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
rhetoric,of anti-rhetoric	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
rhetorical theory'	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344
thucydides,and anti-rhetoric	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
thucydides,on mytilenean debate	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168, 250
thucydides,on paradox of honest liar	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 250
topoi,and interplay with creative strategy	Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
wilamowitz-moellendorff,ulrich von	Amendola (2022), The Demades Papyrus (P.Berol. inv. 13045): A New Text with Commentary, 344