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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10882
Thucydides, The History Of The Peloponnesian War, 3.38.2


καὶ δῆλον ὅτι ἢ τῷ λέγειν πιστεύσας τὸ πάνυ δοκοῦν ἀνταποφῆναι ὡς οὐκ ἔγνωσται ἀγωνίσαιτ’ ἄν, ἢ κέρδει ἐπαιρόμενος τὸ εὐπρεπὲς τοῦ λόγου ἐκπονήσας παράγειν πειράσεται.Such a man must plainly either have such confidence in his rhetoric as to adventure to prove that what has been once for all decided is still undetermined, or be bribed to try to delude us by elaborate sophisms.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

2 results
1. Thucydides, The History of The Peloponnesian War, 3.36-3.49, 3.38.4, 3.38.7, 3.40.3, 3.42.3, 3.42.5, 3.43.2, 3.43.4, 5.85, 5.89, 5.93 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

3.38.4. The persons to blame are you who are so foolish as to institute these contests; who go to see an oration as you would to see a sight, take your facts on hearsay, judge of the practicability of a project by the wit of its advocates, and trust for the truth as to past events not to the fact which you saw more than to the clever strictures which you heard; 3.38.7. asking, if I may so say, for something different from the conditions under which we live, and yet comprehending inadequately those very conditions; very slaves to the pleasure of the ear, and more like the audience of a rhetorician than the council of a city. 3.40.3. Compassion is due to those who can reciprocate the feeling, not to those who will never pity us in return, but are our natural and necessary foes: the orators who charm us with sentiment may find other less important arenas for their talents, in the place of one where the city pays a heavy penalty for a momentary pleasure, themselves receiving fine acknowledgments for their fine phrases; while indulgence should be shown towards those who will be our friends in future, instead of towards men who will remain just what they were, and as much our enemies as before. 3.42.3. What is still more intolerable is to accuse a speaker of making a display in order to be paid for it. If ignorance only were imputed, an unsuccessful speaker might retire with a reputation for honesty, if not for wisdom; while the charge of dishonesty makes him suspected, if successful, and thought, if defeated, not only a fool but a rogue. 3.42.5. The good citizen ought to triumph not by frightening his opponents but by beating them fairly in argument; and a wise city without over-distinguishing its best advisers, will nevertheless not deprive them of their due, and far from punishing an unlucky counsellor will not even regard him as disgraced. 3.43.2. Plain good advice has thus come to be no less suspected than bad; and the advocate of the most monstrous measures is not more obliged to use deceit to gain the people, than the best counsellor is to lie in order to be believed. 3.43.4. Still, considering the magnitude of the interests involved, and the position of affairs, we orators must make it our business to look a little further than you who judge offhand; especially as we, your advisers, are responsible, while you, our audience, are not so.
2. Xenophon, Memoirs, 4.2.5 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

4.2.5. This exordium might be adapted so as to suit candidates for the office of public physician. They might begin their speeches in this strain: Men of Athens, I have never yet studied medicine, nor sought to find a teacher among our physicians; for I have constantly avoided learning anything from the physicians, and even the appearance of having studied their art. Nevertheless I ask you to appoint me to the office of a physician, and I will endeavour to learn by experimenting on you. The exordium set all the company laughing.


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
alcibiades Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
antiphon,anti-rhetoric Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 249
cleon Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168, 249
consolation Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
cowardice Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
daring/boldness (tolme) Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
deception,and deliberation Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
deception,and democratic constitution Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
deception,association with rhetoric Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 249
democracy,athenian,and noble lies Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
democracy,athenian,thucydides depiction of Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 249
demosthenes,on logocentricity Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes,representation of deceit Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes,works,on the false embassy Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
demosthenes Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
diodotus Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168, 249
expectation (negative and positive) Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
gain' Barbato (2020), The Ideology of Democratic Athens: Institutions, Orators and the Mythical Past, 129
hope,and fear Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
noble lie Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168
pericles Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
politics,hope in greek and roman Kazantzidis and Spatharas (2018), Hope in Ancient Literature, History, and Art, 138
rhetoric,as flattery Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 249
rhetoric,of anti-rhetoric Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 249
thucydides,and anti-rhetoric Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 249
thucydides,melian dialogue Barbato (2020), The Ideology of Democratic Athens: Institutions, Orators and the Mythical Past, 129
thucydides,on mytilenean debate Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168, 249
topoi,and interplay with creative strategy Hesk (2000), Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens, 168