Home About Network of subjects Linked subjects heatmap Book indices included Search by subject Search by reference Browse subjects Browse texts

Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10882
Thucydides, The History Of The Peloponnesian War, 2.61.2


καὶ ἐγὼ μὲν ὁ αὐτός εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἐξίσταμαι: ὑμεῖς δὲ μεταβάλλετε, ἐπειδὴ ξυνέβη ὑμῖν πεισθῆναι μὲν ἀκεραίοις, μεταμέλειν δὲ κακουμένοις, καὶ τὸν ἐμὸν λόγον ἐν τῷ ὑμετέρῳ ἀσθενεῖ τῆς γνώμης μὴ ὀρθὸν φαίνεσθαι, διότι τὸ μὲν λυποῦν ἔχει ἤδη τὴν αἴσθησιν ἑκάστῳ, τῆς δὲ ὠφελίας ἄπεστιν ἔτι ἡ δήλωσις ἅπασι, καὶ μεταβολῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ταύτης ἐξ ὀλίγου, ἐμπεσούσης ταπεινὴ ὑμῶν ἡ διάνοια ἐγκαρτερεῖν ἃ ἔγνωτε.I am the same man and do not alter, it is you who change, since in fact you took my advice while unhurt, and waited for misfortune to repent of it; and the apparent error of my policy lies in the infirmity of your resolution, since the suffering that it entails is being felt by every one among you, while its advantage is still remote and obscure to all, and a great and sudden reverse having befallen you, your mind is too much depressed to persevere in your resolves.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

2 results
1. Thucydides, The History of The Peloponnesian War, 1.23.1, 1.140.1, 1.141.1, 2.22.1, 2.48.3, 2.49.6, 2.50.1, 2.53.1, 2.53.4, 2.59.2-2.59.3, 2.60.1, 2.61.3, 2.63.2-2.63.3, 2.64.1, 2.65.1, 2.65.3, 2.65.8, 2.65.10, 2.93.4, 3.3.3, 3.8, 3.37.2, 3.38.1, 3.40.4, 3.82.2, 3.112.3, 3.112.5, 6.15.2, 6.24, 7.29.5 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

1.23.1. The Median war, the greatest achievement of past times, yet found a speedy decision in two actions by sea and two by land. The Peloponnesian war was prolonged to an immense length, and long as it was it was short without parallel for the misfortunes that it brought upon Hellas . 1.140.1. ‘There is one principle, Athenians, which I hold to through everything, and that is the principle of no concession to the Peloponnesians. I know that the spirit which inspires men while they are being persuaded to make war, is not always retained in action; that as circumstances change, resolutions change. Yet I see that now as before the same, almost literally the same, counsel is demanded of me; and I put it to those of you, who are allowing yourselves to be persuaded, to support the national resolves even in the case of reverses, or to forfeit all credit for their wisdom in the event of success. For sometimes the course of things is as arbitrary as the plans of man; indeed this is why we usually blame chance for whatever does not happen as we expected. 1.141.1. Make your decision therefore at once, either to submit before you are harmed, or if we are to go to war, as I for one think we ought, to do so without caring whether the ostensible cause be great or small, resolved against making concessions or consenting to a precarious tenure of our possessions. For all claims from an equal, urged upon a neighbor as commands, before any attempt at legal settlement, be they great or be they small, have only one meaning, and that is slavery. 2.22.1. He, meanwhile, seeing anger and infatuation just now in the ascendant, and confident of his wisdom in refusing a sally, would not call either assembly or meeting of the people, fearing the fatal results of a debate inspired by passion and not by prudence. Accordingly, he addressed himself to the defence of the city, and kept it as quiet as possible 2.48.3. All speculation as to its origin and its causes, if causes can be found adequate to produce so great a disturbance, I leave to other writers, whether lay or professional; for myself, I shall simply set down its nature, and explain the symptoms by which perhaps it may be recognized by the student, if it should ever break out again. This I can the better do, as I had the disease myself, and watched its operation in the case of others. 2.49.6. Besides this, the miserable feeling of not being able to rest or sleep never ceased to torment them. The body meanwhile did not waste away so long as the distemper was at its height, but held out to a marvel against its ravages; so that when they succumbed, as in most cases, on the seventh or eighth day to the internal inflammation, they had still some strength in them. But if they passed this stage, and the disease descended further into the bowels, inducing a violent ulceration there accompanied by severe diarrhea, this brought on a weakness which was generally fatal. 2.50.1. But while the nature of the distemper was such as to baffle all description, and its attacks almost too grievous for human nature to endure, it was still in the following circumstance that its difference from all ordinary disorders was most clearly shown. All the birds and beasts that prey upon human bodies, either abstained from touching them (though there were many lying unburied), or died after tasting them. 2.53.1. Nor was this the only form of lawless extravagance which owed its origin to the plague. Men now coolly ventured on what they had formerly done in a corner, and not just as they pleased, seeing the rapid transitions produced by persons in prosperity suddenly dying and those who before had nothing succeeding to their property. 2.53.4. Fear of gods or law of man there was none to restrain them. As for the first, they judged it to be just the same whether they worshipped them or not, as they saw all alike perishing; and for the last, no one expected to live to be brought to trial for his offences, but each felt that a far severer sentence had been already passed upon them all and hung ever over their heads, and before this fell it was only reasonable to enjoy life a little. 2.59.2. They began to find fault with Pericles, as the author of the war and the cause of all their misfortunes, and became eager to come to terms with Lacedaemon, and actually sent ambassadors thither, who did not however succeed in their mission. Their despair was now complete and all vented itself upon Pericles. 2.59.3. When he saw them exasperated at the present turn of affairs and acting exactly as he had anticipated, he called an assembly, being (it must be remembered) still general, with the double object of restoring confidence and of leading them from these angry feelings to a calmer and more hopeful state of mind. He accordingly came forward and spoke as follows: 2.60.1. ‘I was not unprepared for the indignation of which I have been the object, as I know its causes; and I have called an assembly for the purpose of reminding you upon certain points, and of protesting against your being unreasonably irritated with me, or cowed by your sufferings. 2.61.3. For before what is sudden, unexpected, and least within calculation the spirit quails; and putting all else aside, the plague has certainly been an emergency of this kind. 2.63.2. Besides, to recede is no longer possible, if indeed any of you in the alarm of the moment has become enamored of the honesty of such an unambitious part. For what you hold is, to speak somewhat plainly, a tyranny; to take it perhaps was wrong, but to let it go is unsafe. 2.64.1. But you must not be seduced by citizens like these nor be angry with me,—who, if I voted for war, only did as you did yourselves,—in spite of the enemy having invaded your country and done what you could be certain that he would do, if you refused to comply with his demands; and although besides what we counted for, the plague has come upon us—the only point indeed at which our calculation has been at fault. It is this, I know, that has had a large share in making me more unpopular than I should otherwise have been,—quite undeservedly, unless you are also prepared to give me the credit of any success with which chance may present you. 2.65.1. Such were the arguments by which Pericles tried to cure the Athenians of their anger against him and to divert their thoughts from their immediate afflictions. 2.65.3. In fact, the public feeling against him did not subside until he had been fined. 2.65.8. The causes of this are not far to seek. Pericles indeed, by his rank, ability, and known integrity, was enabled to exercise an independent control over the multitude—in short, to lead them instead of being led by them; for as he never sought power by improper means, he was never compelled to flatter them, but, on the contrary, enjoyed so high an estimation that he could afford to anger them by contradiction. 2.65.10. With his successors it was different. More on a level with one another, and each grasping at supremacy, they ended by committing even the conduct of state affairs to the whims of the multitude. 2.93.4. Arriving by night and launching the vessels from Nisaea, they sailed, not to Piraes as they had originally intended, being afraid of the risk, besides which there was some talk of a wind having stopped them, but to the point of Salamis that looks towards Megara ; where there was a fort and a squadron of three ships to prevent anything sailing in or out of Megara . This fort they assaulted, and towed off the galleys empty, and surprising the inhabitants began to lay waste the rest of the island. 3.3.3. word having been brought them of a festival in honor of the Malean Apollo outside the town, which is kept by the whole people of Mitylene, and at which, if haste were made, they might hope to take them by surprise. If this plan succeeded, well and good; if not, they were to order the Mitylenians to deliver up their ships and to pull down their walls, and if they did not obey, to declare war. 3.38.1. For myself, I adhere to my former opinion, and wonder at those who have proposed to reopen the case of the Mitylenians, and who are thus causing a delay which is all in favour of the guilty, by making the sufferer proceed against the offender with the edge of his anger blunted; although where vengeance follows most closely upon the wrong, it best equals it and most amply requites it. I wonder also who will be the man who will maintain the contrary, and will pretend to show that the crimes of the Mitylenians are of service to us, and our misfortunes injurious to the allies. 3.40.4. To sum up shortly, I say that if you follow my advice you will do what is just towards the Mitylenians, and at the same time expedient; while by a different decision you will not oblige them so much as pass sentence upon yourselves. For if they were right in rebelling, you must be wrong in ruling. However, if, right or wrong, you determine to rule, you must carry out your principle and punish the Mitylenians as your interest requires; or else you must give up your empire and cultivate honesty without danger. 3.82.2. The sufferings which revolution entailed upon the cities were many and terrible, such as have occurred and always will occur, as long as the nature of mankind remains the same; though in a severer or milder form, and varying in their symptoms, according to the variety of the particular cases. In peace and prosperity states and individuals have better sentiments, because they do not find themselves suddenly confronted with imperious necessities; but war takes away the easy supply of daily wants, and so proves a rough master, that brings most men's characters to a level with their fortunes. 3.112.3. At dawn he fell upon the Ambraciots while they were still abed, ignorant of what had passed, and fully thinking that it was their own countrymen,— 3.112.5. In this way he routed their army as soon as he attacked it, slaying most of them where they were, the rest breaking away in flight over the hills. 6.15.2. By far the warmest advocate of the expedition was, however, Alcibiades, son of Clinias, who wished to thwart Nicias both as his political opponent and also because of the attack he had made upon him in his speech, and who was, besides, exceedingly ambitious of a command by which he hoped to reduce Sicily and Carthage, and personally to gain in wealth and reputation by means of his successes. 7.29.5. Everywhere confusion reigned and death in all its shapes; and in particular they attacked a boys' school, the largest that there was in the place, into which the children had just gone, and massacred them all. In short, the disaster falling upon the whole town was unsurpassed in magnitude, and unapproached by any in suddenness and in horror.
2. Xenophon, Hellenica, 1.6.35, 1.7.32 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

1.7.32. This much, however, I can say in defence of both parties, that the storm absolutely prevented them from doing any of the things which the generals had planned. And as witnesses to this fact you have those who were saved by mere chance, among whom is one of our generals, who came through safely on a disabled ship, and whom they now bid you judge by the same vote (although at that time he needed to be picked up himself) by which you judge those who did not do what they 406 B.C. were ordered to do.


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, accumulations of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 66
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, agency of humans called into question / deemphasized by Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277, 291
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, and hippocratic corpus Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 68
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, and passive phrases / shades of meaning Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, and perfect forms with static implications Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, and personification Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 291
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, as subjects Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277, 290, 291
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, circumstances / conditions / states of affairs stressed by Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 66, 277
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, depersonalizing Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 291
abstract nominal phrases in thucydides, preferred to personal constructions Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
acharnians Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 173
ambiguity de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
arginusae de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
aristophanes, comic poet Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 173
aristotle Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 173
athens de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
athens and athenians, exposed to forces beyond their control Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
choice (primarily in thucydides), and freedom Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 293
choice (primarily in thucydides), and rationality Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 293
choice (primarily in thucydides), greek vs. modern conception of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 293
choice (primarily in thucydides), impairment / erasure of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 291, 293
cleon de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
democracy de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
emotions, anger/rage de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
emotions, anger management de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
euryptolemus de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
impersonal passive, and asthenic verbs Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 66
irrational impulses, and choice Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291, 293
irrational impulses, athenians beset by Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
logographers Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 173
mytilene de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
mytilenean debate Liddel, Decrees of Fourth-Century Athens (403/2-322/1 BC): Volume 2, Political and Cultural Perspectives (2020) 58
narratee de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
necessity (in thucydides), and circumstances / material conditions / states of affairs Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
necessity (in thucydides), impersonal element in Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 293
nicias, and athenian decision for sicilian expedition Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
nicias Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 168
pathology of war, and stasis as attacker Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 68
pathology of war, and stasis as disease Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 68
peace of philokrates Liddel, Decrees of Fourth-Century Athens (403/2-322/1 BC): Volume 2, Political and Cultural Perspectives (2020) 58
pericles' Liddel, Decrees of Fourth-Century Athens (403/2-322/1 BC): Volume 2, Political and Cultural Perspectives (2020) 58
plague, and compounds of πίπτω Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 68
plague, as μεταβολή Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291
plataea and plataeans Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
sicilian expedition Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 168
sicily Rengakos and Tsakmakis, Brill's Companion to Thucydides (2006) 168
speech, and narrative de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
substantivized neuter phrases, based on adjectives Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291
substantivized neuter phrases, based on participles (= schema thucydideum) Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277, 291
syracuse and syracusans Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 277
thucydides de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
xenophon de Bakker, van den Berg, and Klooster, Emotions and Narrative in Ancient Literature and Beyond (2022) 223
γνώμη (and γιγνώσκω), as choice Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 291
γνώμη (and γιγνώσκω), enslavement of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 291
γνώμη (and γιγνώσκω), struggling with contrary impulses Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291
γνώμη (and γιγνώσκω), volitional connotations of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291
γνώμη (and γιγνώσκω), vs. passion Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291
γνώμη (and γιγνώσκω), weakness of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 290, 291
μεταβολή (reversal) Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 66, 68, 290, 291
πίπτω, compounds of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 68, 290, 291
ἵστημι, compounds of Joho, Style and Necessity in Thucydides (2022) 66, 277