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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10313
Sextus, Against The Mathematicians, 5.84-5.85
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1. Cicero, On Divination, 2.92-2.93, 2.95, 2.98-2.99 (2nd cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

2.92. Quae potest igitur contagio ex infinito paene intervallo pertinere ad lunam vel potius ad terram? Quid? cum dicunt, id quod iis dicere necesse est, omnis omnium ortus, quicumque gigtur in omni terra, quae incolatur, eosdem esse, eademque omnibus, qui eodem statu caeli et stellarum nati sint, accidere necesse esse, nonne eius modi sunt, ut ne caeli quidem naturam interpretes istos caeli nosse appareat? Cum enim illi orbes, qui caelum quasi medium dividunt et aspectum nostrum definiunt, qui a Graecis o(ri/zontes nomitur, a nobis finientes rectissume nominari possunt, varietatem maxumam habeant aliique in aliis locis sint, necesse est ortus occasusque siderum non fieri eodem tempore apud omnis. 2.93. Quodsi eorum vi caelum modo hoc, modo illo modo temperatur, qui potest eadem vis esse nascentium, cum caeli tanta sit dissimilitudo? In his locis, quae nos incolimus, post solstitium Canicula exoritur, et quidem aliquot diebus, at apud Troglodytas, ut scribitur, ante solstitium, ut, si iam concedamus aliquid vim caelestem ad eos, qui in terra gignuntur, pertinere, confitendum sit illis eos, qui nascuntur eodem tempore, posse in dissimilis incidere naturas propter caeli dissimilitudinem; quod minime illis placet; volunt enim illi omnis eodem tempore ortos, qui ubique sint nati, eadem condicione nasci. 2.95. Quid? quod uno et eodem temporis puncto nati dissimilis et naturas et vitas et casus habent, parumne declarat nihil ad agendam vitam nascendi tempus pertinere? nisi forte putamus neminem eodem tempore ipso et conceptum et natum, quo Africanum. Num quis igitur talis fuit? 2.98. Et, si ad rem pertinet, quo modo caelo adfecto conpositisque sideribus quodque animal oriatur, valeat id necesse est non in hominibus solum, verum in bestiis etiam; quo quid potest dici absurdius? L. quidem Tarutius Firmanus, familiaris noster, in primis Chaldaicis rationibus eruditus, urbis etiam nostrae natalem diem repetebat ab iis Parilibus, quibus eam a Romulo conditam accepimus, Romamque, in iugo cum esset luna, natam esse dicebat nec eius fata canere dubitabat. 2.99. O vim maxumam erroris! Etiamne urbis natalis dies ad vim stellarum et lunae pertinebat? Fac in puero referre, ex qua adfectione caeli primum spiritum duxerit; num hoc in latere aut in caemento, ex quibus urbs effecta est, potuit valere? Sed quid plura? cotidie refelluntur. Quam multa ego Pompeio, quam multa Crasso, quam multa huic ipsi Caesari a Chaldaeis dicta memini, neminem eorum nisi senectute, nisi domi, nisi cum claritate esse moriturum! ut mihi permirum videatur quemquam exstare, qui etiam nunc credat iis, quorum praedicta cotidie videat re et eventis refelli. 2.92. In view, therefore, of these almost limitless distances, what influence can the planets exercise upon the moon, or rather, upon the earth?[44] Again, when the Chaldeans say, as they are bound to do, that all persons born anywhere in the habitable earth under the same horoscope, are alike and must have the same fate, is it not evident that these would‑be interpreters of the sky are of a class who are utterly ignorant of the nature of the sky? For the earth is, as it were, divided in half and our view limited by those circles which the Greeks call ὁρίζοντες, and which we may in all accuracy term finientes or horizons. Now these horizons vary without limit according to the position of the spectator. Hence, of necessity, the rising and setting of the stars will not occur at the same time for all persons. 2.93. But if this stellar force affects the heavens now in one way and now in another, how is it possible for this force to operate alike on all persons who are born at the same time, in view of the fact that they are born under vastly different skies? In those places in which we live the Dog-star rises after the solstice, in fact, several days later. But among the Troglodytes, we read, it sets before the solstice. Hence if we should now admit that some stellar influence affects persons who are born upon the earth, then it must be conceded that all persons born at the same time may have different natures owing to the differences in their horoscopes. This is a conclusion by no means agreeable to the astrologers; for they insist that all persons born at the same time, regardless of the place of birth, are born to the same fate. [45] 2.95. And, again, the fact that men who were born at the very same instant, are unlike in character, career, and in destiny, makes it very clear that the time of birth has nothing to do in determining mans course in life. That is, unless perchance we are to believe that nobody else was conceived and born at the very same time that Africanus was. For was there ever anyone like him? [46] 2.98. Again: if it matters under what aspect of the sky or combination of the stars every animate being is born, then necessarily the same conditions must affect iimate beings also: can any statement be more ridiculous than that? Be that as it may, our good friend Lucius Tarutius of Firmum, who was steeped in Chaldaic lore, made a calculation, based on the assumption that our citys birthday was on the Feast of Pales (at which time tradition says it was founded by Romulus), and from that calculation Tarutius even went so far as to assert that Rome was born when the moon was in the sign of Libra and from that fact unhesitatingly prophesied her destiny. 2.99. What stupendous power delusion has! And was the citys natal day also subject to the influence of the moon and stars? Assume, if you will, that it matters in the case of a child under what arrangement of the heavenly bodies it draws its first breath, does it also follow that the stars could have had any influence over the bricks and cement of which the city was built? But why say more against a theory which every days experience refutes? I recall a multitude of prophecies which the Chaldeans made to Pompey, to Crassus and even to Caesar himself (now lately deceased), to the effect that no one of them would die except in old age, at home and in great glory. Hence it would seem very strange to me should anyone, especially at this time, believe in men whose predictions he sees disproved every day by actual results. [48]
2. Gellius, Attic Nights, 14.1.7-14.1.11 (2nd cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

3. Sextus, Against The Mathematicians, 5.83, 5.85, 5.88-5.89, 5.99 (2nd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

4. Favorinus, In Aulus Gellius Noctes Atticae, 14.1.15, 14.1.26

5. Manilius, Astronomica, 1.53-1.58, 2.82, 2.132, 3.57, 3.203-3.509, 4.14, 4.696, 4.741-4.743, 4.773-4.777, 4.791-4.794



Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
astrology Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
astrometeorology, horoscope of rome Green, Carthage in Virgil's Aeneid: Staging the Enemy under Augustus (2014) 192
babylon Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137
bouch´e-leclercq, a. Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137
causation, cause Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
cicero, on astrology Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137
de divinatione (cicero) Green, Carthage in Virgil's Aeneid: Staging the Enemy under Augustus (2014) 192
earth Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137
eudoxus Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
fate Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
favorinus Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
god Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
honourableness, horoscopes Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
manilius Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
moon Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
planets Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137
ptolemy, claudius the astronomer Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
rule Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
sextus empiricus Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
signs Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137
stars Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137, 147
stoicism, stoics, cosmology of Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
sun Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
tarutius firmanus (l. tarutius firmanus) Green, Carthage in Virgil's Aeneid: Staging the Enemy under Augustus (2014) 192
zodiac' Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 147
zodiac Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 137