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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10243
Seneca The Younger, Letters, 82.10


nanFor the refuter himself proposed a counter-syllogism, based upon the proposition that we regard death as "indifferent," – one of the things which the Greeks call ἀδιάφορα. "Nothing," he says, "that is indifferent can be glorious; death is glorious; therefore death is not indifferent." You comprehend the tricky fallacy which is contained in this syllogism. – mere death is, in fact, not glorious; but a brave death is glorious. And when you say, "Nothing that is indifferent is glorious," I grant you this much, and declare that nothing is glorious except as it deals with indifferent things. I classify as "indifferent," – that is, neither good nor evil – sickness, pain, poverty, exile, death.


nanFor the refuter himself proposed a counter-syllogism, based upon the proposition that we regard death as "indifferent," – one of the things which the Greeks call ἀδιάφορα.[7] "Nothing," he says, "that is indifferent can be glorious; death is glorious; therefore death is not indifferent." You comprehend the tricky fallacy which is contained in this syllogism: mere death is, in fact, not glorious; but a brave death is glorious. And when you say: "Nothing that is indifferent is glorious," I grant you this much, and declare that nothing is glorious except as it deals with indifferent things. I classify as "indifferent," – that is, neither good nor evil – sickness, pain, poverty, exile, death.


nanLXXXIII. On Drunkenness


nanPosidonius pleads the cause of our master Zeno in the only possible way; but it cannot, I hold, be pleaded even in this way. For Posidonius maintains that the word "drunken" is used in two ways, – in the one case of a man who is loaded with wine and has no control over himself; in the other, of a man who is accustomed to get drunk, and is a slave to the habit. Zeno, he says, meant the latter, – the man who is accustomed to get drunk, not the man who is drunk; and no one would entrust to this person any secret, for it might be blabbed out when the man was in his cups.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

8 results
1. Cicero, On The Ends of Good And Evil, 3.53 (2nd cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

3.53. quoniam autem omne, quod est bonum, primum locum tenere dicimus, necesse est nec bonum esse nec malum hoc, quod praepositum praepositum edd. propositum vel praecipuum nominamus. idque ita definimus; quod sit indifferens cum aestimatione mediocri; quod enim illi a)dia/foron dicunt, id mihi ita occurrit, ut indifferens dicerem. neque enim illud fieri poterat ullo modo, ut nihil relinqueretur in mediis, quod aut secundum naturam esset aut contra, nec, cum id relinqueretur, nihil in his poni, quod satis satis om. A aestimabile esset, nec hoc posito non aliqua esse esse P. Man. esset praeposita. recte igitur haec facta distinctio est, atque etiam ab iis, quo facilius res perspici possit, hoc simile ponitur: 3.53.  But since we declare that everything that is good occupies the first rank, it follows that this which we entitle preferred or superior is neither good nor evil; and accordingly we define it as being indifferent but possessed of a moderate value — since it has occurred to me that I may use the word 'indifferent' to represent their term adiaphoron. For in fact, it was inevitable that the class of intermediate things should contain some things that were either in accordance with nature, or the reverse, and this being so, that this class should include some things which possessed moderate value, and, granting this, that some things of this class should be 'preferred.'
2. Cicero, On Duties, 3.53 (2nd cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

3.53. Immo vero, inquiet ille, necesse est, siquidem meministi esse inter homines natura coniunctam societatem. Memini, inquiet ille; sed num ista societas talis est, ut nihil suum cuiusque sit? Quod si ila est, ne vendendum quidem quicquam est, sed dodum. Vides in hac tota disceptatione non illud dici: Quamvis hoc turpe sit, tamen, quoniam expedit, faciam, sed ita expedire, ut turpe non sit, ex altera autem parte, ea re, quia turpe sit, non esse faciendum. 3.53.  "Yea," Antipater will say, "but you are, as you must admit, if you will only bethink you of the bonds of fellowship forged by Nature and existing between man and man." "I do not forget them," the other will reply: but do you mean to say that those bonds of fellowship are such that there is no such thing as private property? If that is the case, we should not sell anything at all, but freely give everything away." In this whole discussion, you see, no one says, "However wrong morally this or that may be, still, since it is expedient, I will do it"; but the one side asserts that a given act is expedient, without being morally wrong, while the other insists that the act should not be done, because it is morally wrong.
3. Seneca The Younger, De Vita Beata (Dialogorum Liber Vii), 22.4 (1st cent. CE - 1st cent. CE)

4. Seneca The Younger, Letters, 17.5, 18.5-18.7, 18.9, 20.13, 59.8, 82.14, 83.9, 87.2-87.5, 123.1-123.3 (1st cent. CE - 1st cent. CE)

5. Sextus, Outlines of Pyrrhonism, 1.91 (2nd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

6. Calcidius (Chalcidius), Platonis Timaeus Commentaria, 220 (3rd cent. CE - 4th cent. CE)

7. Diogenes Laertius, Lives of The Philosophers, 2.109-2.110, 7.163 (3rd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

2.109. Eubulides kept up a controversy with Aristotle and said much to discredit him.Among other members the school of Eubulides included Alexinus of Elis, a man very fond of controversy, for which reason he was called Elenxinus. In particular he kept up a controversy with Zeno. Hermippus says of him that he left Elis and removed to Olympia, where he studied philosophy. His pupils inquired why he took up his abode here, and were told that it was his intention to found a school which should be called the Olympian school. But as their provisions ran short and they found the place unhealthy, they left it, and for the rest of his days Alexinus lived in solitude with a single servant. And some time afterwards, as he was swimming in the Alpheus, the point of a reed ran into him, and of this injury he died. 2.110. I have composed the following lines upon him:It was not then a vain tale that once an unfortunate man, while diving, pierced his foot somehow with a nail; since that great man Alexinus, before he could cross the Alpheus, was pricked by a reed and met his death.He has written not only a reply to Zeno but other works, including one against Ephorus the historian.To the school of Eubulides also belonged Euphantus of Olynthus, who wrote a history of his own times. He was besides a poet and wrote several tragedies, with which he made a great reputation at the festivals. He taught King Antigonus and dedicated to him a work On Kingship which was very popular. He died of old age. 7.163. When some Academic alleged that he had no certainty of anything, Ariston said, Do you not even see your neighbour sitting by you? and when the other answered No, he rejoined,Who can have blinded you? who robbed you of luminous eyesight?The books attributed to him are as follows:Exhortations, two books.of Zeno's Doctrines.Dialogues.Lectures, six books.Dissertations on Philosophy, seven books.Dissertations on Love.Commonplaces on Vainglory.Notebooks, twenty-five volumes.Memorabilia, three books.Anecdotes, eleven books.Against the Rhetoricians.An Answer to the Counter-pleas of Alexinus.Against the Dialecticians, three books.Letters to Cleanthes, four books.Panaetius and Sosicrates consider the Letters to be alone genuine; all the other works named they attribute to Ariston the Peripatetic.
8. Stoic School, Stoicor. Veter. Fragm., 1.111, 1.138, 1.229



Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
alexander the great Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
alexinus, his parallel argument against zeno Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
aristo Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
athens, athenians Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
choice / decision / αἵρεσις Maso, CIcero's Philosophy (2022) 119
cynicism Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
demetrius the cynic Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
diogenes laertius Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
diogenes of sinope (the cynic) Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
evil Maso, CIcero's Philosophy (2022) 119
frugality Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
indifferents Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
indifferents / indifferentia / ἀδιάφορα Maso, CIcero's Philosophy (2022) 119
nature Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
parallel argument, formulated by alexinus against zeno Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
poverty vii Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
preferables Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
related fabulously about, of the stoics' Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
related fabulously about, of zeno Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
seneca l. anneus Maso, CIcero's Philosophy (2022) 119
sextus empiricus Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
socrates Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
stoicism Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
tubero, q. aelius Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
virtue Romana Berno, Roman Luxuria: A Literary and Cultural History (2023) 128
will / voluntas / βούλησις Maso, CIcero's Philosophy (2022) 119
wisdom (sophia), parallelled by alexinus Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124
wisdom (sophia), sagehood of Brouwer, The Stoic Sage: The Early Stoics on Wisdom, Sagehood and Socrates (2013) 124