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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



10243
Seneca The Younger, Letters, 54.4-54.5


nanWhat?" I say to myself; "does death so often test me? Let it do so; I myself have for a long time tested death." "When?" you ask. Before I was born. Death is non-existence, and I know already what that means. What was before me will happen again after me. If there is any suffering in this state, there must have been such suffering also in the past, before we entered the light of day. As a matter of fact, however, we felt no discomfort then.


nanWhat? I say to myself; "does death so often test me? Let it do so; I myself have for a long time tested death." "When?" you ask. Before I was born. Death is non-existence, and I know already what that means. What was before me will happen again after me. If there is any suffering in this state, there must have been such suffering also in the past, before we entered the light of day. As a matter of fact, however, we felt no discomfort then.


nanAnd I ask you, would you not say that one was the greatest of fools who believed that a lamp was worse off when it was extinguished than before it was lighted? We mortals also are lighted and extinguished; the period of suffering comes in between, but on either side there is a deep peace. For, unless I am very much mistaken, my dear Lucilius, we go astray in thinking that death only follows, when in reality it has both preceded us and will in turn follow us. Whatever condition existed before our birth, is death. For what does it matter whether you do not begin at all, or whether you leave off, inasmuch as the result of both these states is non-existence?


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

9 results
1. Cicero, Tusculan Disputations, 1.10-1.11, 1.27-1.30 (2nd cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

1.10. num nunc ex. num K 1 te illa terrent, triceps apud inferos Cerberus, Cocyti coyc ti R 1 fremitus, travectio traiectio ex trav. K 1 transv. V c mg. ('al trans') g Trag. inc.111 Acherontis, mento summam aquam aquam trisyll. cf. Lachm. ad Lucr. 6, 552 quam Nonii L 1 A A attingens amnem Bue. adtinget ( vel -it) senextus Nonii L 1 A A enectus siti Tantalus? summam... tantalus Non. 401,29 enectus ... Tantalus Prisc, GL 2, 470, 18 tantulus X ( corr. K 2 ) Nonii et Prisciani pars tum illud, quod Sisyphus sisyphius X ( sed 2. eras. in V. sis. K 1 aut c ) Nonii pars versat versus? cf. Marx ad Lucil. 1375 saxum sudans nitendo neque proficit hilum? tum ... hlium Non. 121,4; 353, 8. fortasse etiam inexorabiles iudices, Minos et Rhadamanthus? apud quos nec te L. Crassus defendet defendet om. RK 1 ( add. 2 ) nec M. Antonius nec, quoniam apud Graecos iudices res agetur, poteris adhibere Demosthenen; demostenen K tibi ipsi pro te erit maxima corona causa dicenda. dicenda causa K haec fortasse metuis et idcirco mortem censes esse sempiternum malum. Adeone me delirare censes, ut ista esse credam? An tu ante G 1 haec non an tu an non ( 2. an in r. ) V 1? credis? Minime vero. Male hercule narras. Cur? quaeso. Quia disertus dissertus KR 1 esse possem, si contra ista dicerem. Quis enim non in eius modi causa? aut quid negotii est haec poëtarum et pictorum portenta convincere? aut convincere Non. 375, 29 1.11. Atqui pleni libri sunt contra ista ipsa disserentium dissenentium G 1 (dissotium corr. G 1? ) RV 1 ( corr. ipse? ) diserentium K philosophorum. Inepte sane. quis enim est est om. K 1, add. c tam excors, quem ista moveant? commoveant V 2 Si ergo apud inferos miseri non sunt, ne sunt quidem apud inferos ulli. Ita prorsus prossus G existimo. Ubi sunt Inde ab ubi - 223, 24 iam sunt multa in K madore corrupta ergo i, quos miseros dicis, aut quem locum incolunt? si enim sunt, nusquam esse non possunt. Ego vero nusquam esse illos puto. Igitur ne esse quidem? Prorsus isto modo, et tamen miseros miseros cf. Serv. Aen. 4, 20 ob id ipsum quidem, quidem om. K quia nulli sint. 1.27. idque idquae G 1 RV 1 cum multis aliis rebus, tum e pontificio iure et e caerimoniis caer. V cer. GKR sepulcrorum intellegi licet, quas maxumis ingeniis praediti nec tanta cura coluissent nec violatas tam inexpiabili inexpiabile X -i in r. V 1? s religione sanxissent, nisi haereret in eorum mentibus mortem non interitum esse omnia tollentem atque delentem, sed quandam quasi migrationem commutationemque vitae, quae in claris viris et feminis dux in caelum soleret esse, in ceteris humi retineretur et permaneret tamen. 1.28. ex hoc et nostrorum opinione Romulus in caelo cum diis agit aevum ann. 115, ut famae adsentiens dixit Ennius, et apud Graecos indeque perlapsus ad nos et usque ad Oceanum Hercules et ante retin. add. V c et perm.... 20 hercules fere omnia in r. V 1 tantus et tam praesens habetur deus; hinc Liber Semela natus eademque famae celebritate Tyndaridae fratres, qui non modo adiutores in proeliis victoriae populi Romani, sed etiam nuntii fuisse perhibentur. quid? Ino ino sed o in r. V 1 Cadmi inhoc admi G 1 filia nonne nonne ex nomine K 2 LEGKOE |ea R LEGKOQEA GKV ( Q in r. ) *leukoqe/a nominata a Graecis Matuta mutata K 1 V 1 (ut v.) Nonii L 1 habetur a nostris? Quid?...nostris Non. 66, 13 quid? totum prope caelum, ne pluris persequar, persequar pluris K nonne humano genere completum est? 1.29. si vero scrutari vetera et ex is illis Lact. ea quae scriptores Graeciae prodiderunt eruere coner, ipsi illi maiorum gentium dii ipsi maiorum gentium dii Aug. civ. 8,5 qui habentur qui habentur om. Aug. hinc nobis a ante nobis add. V 2 s Lact. Aug. cf. Progr. 24 profecti in caelum reperientur. repperientur X (sed 1. p del. R 1? ) Aug. quaere, quorum demonstrentur quare quoniam demonstrantur Lact. demonstrentur Aug. demonstrantur X, sed a in e corr. G 1 demonstran in r. V 1 sepulcra in Graecia; reminiscere, quoniam es initiatus, es initiatus hinc Lact. inst. 1, 15 Atticum cum Cicerone colloqui conclusit, cf. Po. Herm. 46 p. 629 quae tradantur mysteriis: mist. KV tum denique, quam hoc late pateat, intelleges. Si vero. .. 232, 5 intelleges Lact. inst. 1, 15, 24 Aug. cons. euang. 1, 23, 32 sed qui nondum ea quae multis post annis homines tractare coepissent add. Po. tractari coepta sunt Keil physica phisica X didicissent, dicissent R 1 tantum sibi persuaserant, quantum natura admonente cognoverant, cognoverunt X corr. V c rationes et causas rerum non tenebant, visis visis eqs. asyndeton suspectum quibusdam saepe movebantur, isque maxime nocturnis, ut viderentur ei, eil illi K 2 hi in r. V 1 qui vita excesserant, vivere. 1.30. Ut porro firmissimum hoc adferri videtur videretur V c cur deos esse credamus, quod quod quia K 2 nulla gens tam fera, nemo omnium hominum K tam sit sit K 2 V 2 s inmanis, fit X inmani s R imm. KH cuius mentem non imbuerit deorum deorum K div in r. V 1 opinio (multi de diis prava sentiunt—id enim idem K 1 (id enim 2 ) RH vitioso more effici solet—, omnes tamen esse vim et naturam divinam arbitrantur, nec vero id conlocutio hominum aut consessus consessus Bouhier (cf. Legg. II, 13) consensus efficit, effecit Bouhier non institutis opinio est nec... opinio est in r. K 1 confirmata, non legibus; omni omnia R omni V autem in re consensio omnium omnium hominum R 1 gentium lex naturae putanda est Porro infirmissimum ... 20 putanda est H )—quis est igitur, qui suorum mortem primum non eo lugeat, quod eos orbatos vitae commodis arbitretur? tolle hanc opinionem, luctum sustuleris. nemo enim maeret suo suo K incommodo: dolent fortasse et anguntur, sed illa lugubris lamentatio fletusque maerens ex eo est, quod eum, quem dileximus, vitae commodis privatum arbitramur idque sentire. idque sentire eras. in V atque haec ita sentimus natura duce, nulla ratione nullaque doctrina. Maxumum vero argumentum maximum KR 1 (u ss. 1 ) maxu mu m vero argumentum V ( ss. 2 ) est naturam ipsam de inmortalitate animorum tacitam iudicare, quod omnibus curae sunt, et maxumae maxume X (-ime K) quidem, quae post mortem futura sint. sunt K 2 Caecil. com. 210 serit arbores, quae alteri altero K 1 saeclo saeculo K 1 V 2 suppl. s (cf. Cato m. 24) ille ' cod. Aug. ' prosint, ut ait Statius in Synephebis, sinephebis KV sine phebis GR (coni. 1 ) quid spectans expectans V nisi etiam postera saecula ad se pertinere? ergo arbores seret diligens agricola, quarum aspiciet bacam ipse numquam; vir magnus leges instituta rem publicam non seret? non seret V c (1. n in r.) s conseret GKR quid procreatio liberorum, quid propagatio propagatio progatio R prorogatio V 1 nominis, quid adoptationes filiorum, quid testamentorum diligentia, quid ipsa sepulcrorum monumenta elogia significant nisi nos futura etiam cogitare? Quid?
2. Lucretius Carus, On The Nature of Things, 3.832-3.842, 3.972-3.977 (1st cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

3. Plutarch, Consolation To His Wife, None (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

4. Seneca The Younger, De Consolatione Ad Marciam, 19.4-19.5 (1st cent. CE - 1st cent. CE)

5. Seneca The Younger, De Providentia (Dialogorum Liber I), a b c d\n0 "6.6" "6.6" "6 6" (1st cent. CE - 1st cent. CE)

6. Seneca The Younger, Letters, 6.1-6.3, 7.3, 23.6, 24.18, 36.10, 53.2-53.6, 54.5, 65.1, 65.12, 65.15-65.16, 65.24, 82.14, 82.16, 123.1 (1st cent. CE - 1st cent. CE)

7. Seneca The Younger, Troades, 392-399, 406, 371 (1st cent. CE - 1st cent. CE)

8. Eusebius of Caesarea, Preparation For The Gospel, 15.20.6 (3rd cent. CE - 4th cent. CE)

9. Epicurus, Sententiae (Ratae Sententiae), "2"



Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
agnosticism Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
annihilation Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
axiochus Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
birth Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 472
body, imprisonment of the soul Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
body politic, reincarnation Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
catharsis, seneca discounts theatre as using first movement, not emotion Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
chrysippus Gazis and Hooper, Aspects of Death and the Afterlife in Greek Literature (2021) 176
cicero Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
death, afterlife Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
death, consolatory writings Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
death, socrates death Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 472
death, stoicism Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
death, suicide Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
death Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
emotions, fear Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
epicurus Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
ethics, of stoicism Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
euripides Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158; Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 472
experience, religious, feelings Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
fear of death, of annihilation Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
goodness, good life Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
hades Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
heidegger, m. Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
honourableness Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
identity, in stoicism Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
lucretius, epicurean, asymmetrical attitude to past and future Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
lucretius Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
mythology Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
nature, of human beings Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
normative self or identity Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
past, present, future, asymmetrical attitude to past and future Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
past, present, future, stoics think emotions do not concern past harm or benefit Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
perfection Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
plato, platonism Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
plato Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
plutarch Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 472
plutarch of chaeroneia, middle platonist Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
politics and religion Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471
progress, moral Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
self-knowledge Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
seneca Gazis and Hooper, Aspects of Death and the Afterlife in Greek Literature (2021) 176; Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373; Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158; Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
soul, life as punishment of soul Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
soul, mortality-immortality of the soul Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 472
soul-body relationship, translocation Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
soul Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
stoic Gazis and Hooper, Aspects of Death and the Afterlife in Greek Literature (2021) 176
stoicism, stoic views Rüpke, The individual in the religions of the ancient Mediterranean (2014) 471, 472
symmetry arguments Gazis and Hooper, Aspects of Death and the Afterlife in Greek Literature (2021) 176; Long, Immortality in Ancient Philosophy (2019) 158
telos, temporality Long, From Epicurus to Epictetus Studies in Hellenistic and Roman Philosophy (2006) 373
therapy, techniques see esp. Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
therapy Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228
zeno of citium, stoic, hence different conception of freedom from emotion(apatheia)' Sorabji, Emotion and Peace of Mind: From Stoic Agitation to Christian Temptation (2000) 228