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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



9398
Plato, Gorgias, 482c


καὶ πλείστους ἀνθρώπους μὴ ὁμολογεῖν μοι ἀλλʼ ἐναντία λέγειν μᾶλλον ἢ ἕνα ὄντα ἐμὲ ἐμαυτῷ ἀσύμφωνον εἶναι καὶ ἐναντία λέγειν. ΚΑΛ. ὦ Σώκρατες, δοκεῖς νεανιεύεσθαι ἐν τοῖς λόγοις ὡς ἀληθῶς δημηγόρος ὤν· καὶ νῦν ταῦτα δημηγορεῖς ταὐτὸν παθόντος Πώλου πάθος ὅπερ Γοργίου κατηγόρει πρὸς σὲ παθεῖν. ἔφη γάρ που Γοργίαν ἐρωτώμενον ὑπὸ σοῦ, ἐὰν ἀφίκηται παρʼ αὐτὸν μὴ ἐπιστάμενος τὰ δίκαια ὁ τὴν ῥητορικὴνout of tune and discordant, or to have any number of people disagreeing with me and contradicting me, than that I should have internal discord and contradiction in my own single self. CALLICLES: Socrates, you seem to be roistering recklessly in your talk, like the true demagogue that you are; and you are declaiming now in this way because Polus has got into the same plight as he was accusing Gorgias of letting himself be led into by you. For he said, I think, when you asked Gorgias whether, supposing a man came to him with no knowledge of justice but a desire to learn rhetoric, he would instruct the man


καὶ πλείστους ἀνθρώπους μὴ ὁμολογεῖν μοι ἀλλʼ ἐναντία λέγειν μᾶλλον ἢ ἕνα ὄντα ἐμὲ ἐμαυτῷ ἀσύμφωνον εἶναι καὶ ἐναντία λέγειν. ΚΑΛ. ὦ Σώκρατες, δοκεῖς νεανιεύεσθαι ἐν τοῖς λόγοις ὡς ἀληθῶς δημηγόρος ὤν· καὶ νῦν ταῦτα δημηγορεῖς ταὐτὸν παθόντος Πώλου πάθος ὅπερ Γοργίου κατηγόρει πρὸς σὲ παθεῖν. ἔφη γάρ που Γοργίαν ἐρωτώμενον ὑπὸ σοῦ, ἐὰν ἀφίκηται παρʼ αὐτὸν μὴ ἐπιστάμενος τὰ δίκαια ὁ τὴν ῥητορικὴνout of tune and discordant, or to have any number of people disagreeing with me and contradicting me, than that I should have internal discord and contradiction in my own single self. Call. Socrates, you seem to be roistering recklessly in your talk, like the true demagogue that you are; and you are declaiming now in this way because Polus has got into the same plight as he was accusing Gorgias of letting himself be led into by you. For he said, I think, when you asked Gorgias whether, supposing a man came to him with no knowledge of justice but a desire to learn rhetoric, he would instruct the man


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

16 results
1. Homer, Iliad, 6.153 (8th cent. BCE - 7th cent. BCE)

6.153. /Howbeit, if thou wilt, hear this also, that thou mayest know well my lineage; and many there be that know it. There is a city Ephyre in the heart of Argos, pasture-land of horses, and there dwelt Sisyphus that was craftiest of men, Sisyphus, son of Aeolus; and he begat a son Glaucus;
2. Homer, Odyssey, 11.593 (8th cent. BCE - 7th cent. BCE)

3. Theognis, Elegies, 702-704, 701 (6th cent. BCE - 5th cent. BCE)

4. Antiphon, Fragments, b44 (5th cent. BCE - 5th cent. BCE)

5. Critias, Fragments, b25 (5th cent. BCE - 5th cent. BCE)

6. Democritus, Fragments, b30, b41, b264 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

7. Plato, Apology of Socrates, 28e (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

28e. if, when the commanders whom you chose to command me stationed me, both at Potidaea and at Amphipolis and at Delium, I remained where they stationed me, like anybody else, and ran the risk of death, but when the god gave me a station, as I believed and understood, with orders to spend my life in philosophy and in examining myself and others
8. Plato, Charmides, 166d, 166c (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

9. Plato, Euthyphro, 11e-12a, 11b (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

11b. Euthyphro. But, Socrates, I do not know how to say what I mean. For whatever statement we advance, somehow or other it moves about and won’t stay where we put it. Socrates. Your statements, Euthyphro
10. Plato, Gorgias, 480b, 482a, 482b, 482d, 482e, 487b, 492c, 492d, 478d (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

478d. Soc. Well now, which is the more wretched of two persons who have something evil either in body or in soul, he who is medically treated and is relieved of the evil, or he who is not treated and keeps it? Pol. To my thinking, he who is not treated. Soc. And we found that paying the penalty is a relief from the greatest evil, wickedness? Pol. We did. Soc. Because, I suppose, the justice of the court reforms us and makes us juster, and acts as a medicine for wickedness. Pol. Yes.
11. Plato, Laches, 192d (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

192d. Soc. But what of it when joined with folly? Is it not, on the contrary, hurtful and mischievous? Lach. Yes. Soc. And can you say that such a thing is noble, when it is both mischievous and hurtful? Lach. Not with any justice, Socrates. Soc. Then you will not admit that such an endurance is courage, seeing that it is not noble, whereas courage is a noble quality. Lach. That is true. Soc. So, by your account, wise endurance will be courage. Lach. Apparently.
12. Plato, Meno, 81b, 81c, 81d, 81e, 85b, 81a (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

81a. Men. Now does it seem to you to be a good argument, Socrates? Soc. It does not. Men. Can you explain how not? Soc. I can; for I have heard from wise men and women who told of things divine that— Men. What was it they said ? Soc. Something true, as I thought, and admirable. Men. What was it? And who were the speakers? Soc. They were certain priests and priestesses who have studied so as to be able to give a reasoned account of their ministry; and Pindar also
13. Plato, Protagoras, 348c, 356d, 333b (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

333b. if one thing must needs have but one opposite and no more, while wisdom, and temperance likewise, appear both to be opposite to folly, which is a single thing? Such is the position, Protagoras, I said or is it otherwise?
14. Xenophon, Memoirs, 1.1.19, 1.4.18-1.4.19, 4.4.21 (5th cent. BCE - 4th cent. BCE)

1.1.19. For, like most men, indeed, he believed that the gods are heedful of mankind, but with an important difference; for whereas they do not believe in the omniscience of the gods, Socrates thought that they know all things, our words and deeds and secret purposes; that they are present everywhere, and grant signs to men of all that concerns man. IV. iii, 2; Cyropaedia I. vi. 46. 1.4.18. Nay, but just as by serving men you find out who is willing to serve you in return, by being kind who will be kind to you in return, and by taking counsel, discover the masters of thought, so try the gods by serving them, and see whether they will vouchsafe to counsel you in matters hidden from man. Then you will know that such is the greatness and such the nature of the deity that he sees all things Cyropaedia VIII. vii. 22. and hears all things alike, and is present in all places and heedful of all things. 1.4.19. To me at least it seemed that by these sayings he kept his companions from impiety, injustice, and baseness, and that not only when they were seen by men, but even in solitude; since they ever felt that no deed of theirs could at any time escape the gods. 4.4.21. Yes, and they do many other things contrary to the laws. But surely the transgressors of the laws ordained by the gods pay a penalty that a man can in no wise escape, as some, when they transgress the laws ordained by man, escape punishment, either by concealment or by violence.
15. Dio Chrysostom, Orations, 9.10-9.13 (1st cent. CE

9.10.  Generally the managers of the Isthmian games and other honourable and influential men were sorely troubled and held themselves aloof whenever they came his way, and passed on, all of them, in silence and with scowling glances. But when he went so far as to put the crown of pine upon his head, the Corinthians sent some of their servants to bid him lay aside the crown and do nothing unlawful. 9.11.  He, however, asked them why it was unlawful for him to wear the crown of pine and not so for others. Whereupon one of them said, "Because you have won no victory, Diogenes." To which he replied, "Many and mighty antagonists have I vanquished, not like these slaves who are now wrestling here, hurling the discus and running 9.12.  but more difficult in every way — I mean poverty, exile, and disrepute; yes, and anger, pain, desire, fear, and the most redoubtable beast of all, treacherous and cowardly, I mean pleasure, which no Greek or barbarian can claim he fights and conquers by the strength of his soul, but all alike have succumbed to her and have failed in this contest — Persians, Medes, Syrians, Macedonians, Athenians, Lacedaemonians — all, that is, save myself. 9.13.  Is it I, then, think you, that am worthy of the pine, or will you take and bestow it upon the one who is stuffed with the most meat? Take this answer, then, to those who sent you and say that it is they who break the law; for they go about wearing crowns and yet have won in no contest; and add that I have lent a great lustre to the Isthmian games by having myself taken the crown, which ought to be a thing for goats, forsooth, to fight over, not for men.
16. Diogenes Laertius, Lives of The Philosophers, 6.32-6.33, 6.44, 6.64 (3rd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

6.32. There Xeniades once asked him how he wished to be buried. To which he replied, On my face. Why? inquired the other. Because, said he, after a little time down will be converted into up. This because the Macedonians had now got the supremacy, that is, had risen high from a humble position. Some one took him into a magnificent house and warned him not to expectorate, whereupon having cleared his throat he discharged the phlegm into the man's face, being unable, he said, to find a meaner receptacle. Others father this upon Aristippus. One day he shouted out for men, and when people collected, hit out at them with his stick, saying, It was men I called for, not scoundrels. This is told by Hecato in the first book of his Anecdotes. Alexander is reported to have said, Had I not been Alexander, I should have liked to be Diogenes. 6.33. The word disabled (ἀναπήρους), Diogenes held, ought to be applied not to the deaf or blind, but to those who have no wallet (πήρα). One day he made his way with head half shaven into a party of young revellers, as Metrocles relates in his Anecdotes, and was roughly handled by them. Afterwards he entered on a tablet the names of those who had struck him and went about with the tablet hung round his neck, till he had covered them with ridicule and brought universal blame and discredit upon them. He described himself as a hound of the sort which all men praise, but no one, he added, of his admirers dared go out hunting along with him. When some one boasted that at the Pythian games he had vanquished men, Diogenes replied, Nay, I defeat men, you defeat slaves. 6.44. Alexander having on one occasion sent a letter to Antipater at Athens by a certain Athlios, Diogenes, who was present, said:Graceless son of graceless sire to graceless wight by graceless squire.Perdiccas having threatened to put him to death unless he came to him, That's nothing wonderful, quoth he, for a beetle or a tarantula would do the same. Instead of that he would have expected the threat to be that Perdiccas would be quite happy to do without his company. He would often insist loudly that the gods had given to men the means of living easily, but this had been put out of sight, because we require honeyed cakes, unguents and the like. Hence to a man whose shoes were being put on by his servant, he said, You have not attained to full felicity, unless he wipes your nose as well; and that will come, when you have lost the use of your hands. 6.64. When he was dining in a sanctuary, and in the course of the meal loaves not free from dirt were put on the table, he took them up and threw them away, declaring that nothing unclean ought to enter a sanctuary. To the man who said to him, You don't know anything, although you are a philosopher, he replied, Even if I am but a pretender to wisdom, that in itself is philosophy. When some one brought a child to him and declared him to be highly gifted and of excellent character, What need then, said he, has he of me? Those who say admirable things, but fail to do them, he compared to a harp; for the harp, like them, he said, has neither hearing nor perception. He was going into a theatre, meeting face to face those who were coming out, and being asked why, This, he said, is what I practise doing all my life.


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
antiphon Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
apology Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
bacon, francis Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
callicles Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 77; Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
charmides Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
charmides (dialogue character) Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
crime detection, and curses, as philosophical topic Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
crime detection, and curses, as theme in the sisyphus Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
critias Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
davies, m. Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
diogenes of sinope xx, xxv, and the natural Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
diogenes of sinope xx, xxv, antinomianism Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
diogenes of sinope xx, xxv Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
euripides, possible authorship of sisyphus Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
euthydemos Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
fiction, and paideia, as social benefit Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
fiction, and paideia, problematised in sisyphus Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
freedom (ἐλευθερία\u200e), as rejection of nomoi Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
gorgias Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
gorgias (platos character) Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 60
happiness, vs. goodness Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 77
innate knowledge Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
inquiry Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
justice, and injustice Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 60, 77
justice Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
kallikles Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
law (nomos), antinomianism of diogenes Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
mccabe, m.m. Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 77
nature, by nature (phusei) Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 60
noble lie, and religion Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
noble lie Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
physis, and cynic thought Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
piety Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
plato, forms Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 70
plato, socratic author Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 70
polos Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
polus Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 60, 77
question, as stage direction Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
rhetoric Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 70
satyr drama Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
scodel, r. Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
sexual activity, diogenes and Wolfsdorf, Early Greek Ethics (2020) 656
sisyphus, the, authorship of Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
sisyphus, the, doxography on Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
sisyphus, the Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
sisyphus Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
so be it, gesture for' Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
socrates Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
socratics Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 70
temperance Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
virtue Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
vlastos, g. Harte, Rereading Ancient Philosophy: Old Chestnuts and Sacred Cows (2017) 77
wisdom Ebrey and Kraut, The Cambridge Companion to Plato, 2nd ed (2022) 128
xenophon Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 70
yes/no Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120
yunis, h. Hesk, Deception and Democracy in Classical Athens (2000) 182
γα\x1d ρ, explanatory Boeghold, When a Gesture Was Expected: A Selection of Examples from Archaic and Classical Greek Literature (2022) 120