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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



7456
Livy, History, 1.55.6


quae visa species baud haud per ambages arcem eam imperii caputque rerum fore portendebat, idque ita cecinere vates, quique in urbe erant quosque ad eam rem consultandam ex Etruria acciverant. augebatur ad inpensas regis animus.This was the interpretation given by the soothsayers in the City, as well as by those who had been called into council from Etruria. [7] The king's designs were now much more extensive; so much so that his share of the spoils of Pometia, which had been set apart to complete the work, now hardly met the cost of the foundations. [8] This makes me inclined to trust Fabius — who, moreover, is the older authority — when he says that the amount was only forty talents, rather than Piso, who states that forty thousand pounds of silver were set apart for that object.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

3 results
1. Cicero, On Divination, 1.115, 2.9, 2.13 (2nd cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

1.115. quo de genere Apollinis operta prolata sunt. Credo etiam anhelitus quosdam fuisse terrarum, quibus inflatae mentes oracla funderent. Atque haec quidem vatium ratio est, nec dissimilis sane somniorum. Nam quae vigilantibus accidunt vatibus, eadem nobis dormientibus. Viget enim animus in somnis liber ab sensibus omnique inpeditione curarum iacente et mortuo paene corpore. Qui quia vixit ab omni aeternitate versatusque est cum innumerabilibus animis, omnia, quae in natura rerum sunt, videt, si modo temperatis escis modicisque potionibus ita est adfectus, ut sopito corpore ipse vigilet. Haec somniantis est divinatio. 2.9. Etenim me movet illud, quod in primis Carneades quaerere solebat, quarumnam rerum divinatio esset, earumne, quae sensibus perciperentur. At eas quidem cernimus, audimus, gustamus, olfacimus, tangimus. Num quid ergo in his rebus est, quod provisione aut permotione mentis magis quam natura ipsa sentiamus? aut num nescio qui ille divinus, si oculis captus sit, ut Tiresias fuit, possit, quae alba sint, quae nigra, dicere aut, si surdus sit, varietates vocum aut modos noscere? Ad nullam igitur earum rerum, quae sensu accipiuntur, divinatio adhibetur. Atqui ne in iis quidem rebus, quae arte tractantur, divinatione opus est. Etenim ad aegros non vates aut hariolos, sed medicos solemus adducere, nec vero, qui fidibus aut tibiis uti volunt, ab haruspicibus accipiunt earum tractationem, sed a musicis. 2.13. Sed animadverti, Quinte, te caute et ab iis coniecturis, quae haberent artem atque prudentiam, et ab iis rebus, quae sensibus aut artificiis perciperentur, abducere divinationem eamque ita definire: divinationem esse earum rerum praedictionem et praesensionem, quae essent fortuitae. Primum eodem revolveris. Nam et medici et gubernatoris et imperatoris praesensio est rerum fortuitarum. Num igitur aut haruspex aut augur aut vates quis aut somnians melius coniecerit aut e morbo evasurum aegrotum aut e periculo navem aut ex insidiis exercitum quam medicus, quam gubernator, quam imperator? 1.115. Likewise Marcius and Publicius, according to tradition, made their prophecies in verse, and the cryptic utterances of Apollo were expressed in the same form.[51] Such is the rationale of prophecy by means of frenzy, and that of dreams is not much unlike it. For the revelations made to seers when awake are made to us in sleep. While we sleep and the body lies as if dead, the soul is at its best, because it is then freed from the influence of the physical senses and from the worldly cares that weigh it down. And since the soul has lived from all eternity and has had converse with numberless other souls, it sees everything that exists in nature, provided that moderation and restraint have been used in eating and in drinking, so that the soul is in a condition to watch while the body sleeps. Such is the explanation of divination by dreams. 2.9. I am impressed with the force of the questions with which Carneades used to begin his discussions: What are the things within the scope of divination? Are they things that are perceived by the senses? But those are things that we see, hear, taste, smell, and touch. Is there, then, in such objects some quality that we can better perceive with the aid of prophecy and inspiration than we can with the aid of the senses alone? And is there any diviner, anywhere, who, if blind, like Tiresias, could tell the difference between white and black? Or, who, if deaf, could distinguish between different voices and different tones? Now you must admit that divination is not applicable in any case where knowledge is gained through the senses.Nor is there any need of divination even in matters within the domain of science and of art. For, when people are sick, we, as a general rule, do not summon a prophet or a seer, but we call in a physician. Again, persons who want to learn to play on the harp or on the flute take lessons, not from a soothsayer, but from a musician. 2.9. What inconceivable madness! For it is not enough to call an opinion foolishness when it is utterly devoid of reason. However, Diogenes the Stoic makes some concessions to the Chaldeans. He says that they have the power of prophecy to the extent of being able to tell the disposition of any child and the calling for which he is best fitted. All their other claims of prophetic powers he absolutely denies. He says, for example, that twins are alike in appearance, but that they generally unlike in career and in fortune. Procles and Eurysthenes, kings of the Lacedaemonians, were twin brothers. 2.13. But I observed, Quintus, that you prudently withdrew divination from conjectures based upon skill and experience in public affairs, from those drawn from the use of the senses and from those made by persons in their own callings. I observed, also, that you defined divination to be the foreknowledge and foretelling of things which happen by chance. In the first place, that is a contradiction of what you have admitted. For the foreknowledge possessed by a physician, a pilot, and a general is of things which happen by chance. Then can any soothsayer, augur, prophet, or dreamer conjecture better than a physician, a pilot, or a general that an invalid will come safely out of his sickness, or that a ship will escape from danger, or that an army will avoid an ambuscade? 2.13. Chrysippus, indeed, defines divination in these words: The power to see, understand, and explain premonitory signs given to men by the gods. Its duty, he goes on to say, is to know in advance the disposition of the gods towards men, the manner in which that disposition is shown and by what means the gods may be propitiated and their threatened ills averted. And this same philosopher defines the interpretation of dreams thus: It is the power to understand and explain the visions sent by the gods to men in sleep. Then, if that be true, will just ordinary shrewdness meet these requirements, or rather is there not need of surpassing intelligence and absolutely perfect learning? But I have never seen such a man. [64]
2. Dionysius of Halycarnassus, Roman Antiquities, 4.60-4.61 (1st cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

4.60. 1.  When these men came to the house of the soothsayer they met by chance a youth who was just coming out, and informing him that they were ambassadors sent from Rome who wanted to speak with the soothsayer, they asked him to announce them to him. The youth replied: "The man you wish to speak with is my father. He is busy at present, but in a short time you may be admitted to him.,2.  And while you are waiting for him, acquaint me with the reason of your coming. For if, through inexperience, you are in danger of committing an error in phrasing your question, when you have been informed by me you will be able to avoid any mistake; for the correct for of question is not the least important part of the art of divination." The ambassadors resolved to follow his advice and related the prodigy to him. And when the youth had heard it, after a short pause he said: "Hear me, Romans. My father will interpret this prodigy to you and will tell you no untruth, since it is not right for a soothsayer to speak falsely; but, in order that you may be guilty of no error or falsehood in what you say or in the answers you give to his questions (for it is of importance to you to know these things beforehand), be instructed by me.,3.  After you have related the prodigy to him he will tell you that he does not fully understand what you say and will circumscribe with his staff some piece of ground or other; then he will say to you: 'This is the Tarpeian Hill, and this is part of it that faces the east, this the part that faces the west, this point is north and the opposite is south.',4.  These parts he will point out to you with his staff and then ask you in which of these parts the head was found. What answer, therefore, do I advise you to make? Do not admit that the prodigy was found in any of these places he shall inquire about when he points them out with his staff, but say that it appeared among you at Rome on the Tarpeian Hill. If you stick to these answers and do not allow yourselves to be misled by him, he, well knowing that fate cannot be changed, will interpret to you without concealment what the prodigy means. 4.61. 1.  Having received these instructions, the ambassadors, as soon as the old man was at leisure and a servant came out to fetch them, went in and related the prodigy to the soothsayer. He, craftily endeavouring to mislead them, drew circular lines upon the ground and then other straight lines, and asked them with reference to each place in turn whether the head had been found there; but the ambassadors, not at all disturbed in mind, stuck to the one answer suggested to them by the soothsayer's son, always naming Rome and the Tarpeian Hill, and asked the interpreter not to appropriate the omen to himself, but to answer in the most sincere and just manner.,2.  The soothsayer, accordingly, finding it impossible for him either to impose upon the men or to appropriate the omen, said to them: "Romans, tell your fellow citizens it is ordained by fate that the place in which you found the head shall be the head of all Italy." Since that time the place is called the Capitoline Hill from the head that was found there; for the Romans call heads capita.,3.  Tarquinius, having heard these things from the ambassadors, set the artisans to work and built the greater part of the temple, though he was not able to complete the whole work, being driven from power too soon; but the Roman people brought it to completion in the third consulship. It stood upon a high base and was eight hundred feet in circuit, each side measuring close to two hundred feet; indeed, one would find the excess of the length over the width to be but slight, in fact not a full fifteen feet.,4.  For the temple that was built in the time of our fathers after the burning of this one was erected upon the same foundations, and differed from the ancient structure in nothing but the costliness of the materials, having three rows of columns on the front, facing the south, and a single row on each side. The temple consists of three parallel shrines, separated by party walls; the middle shrine is dedicated to Jupiter, while on one side stands that of Juno and on the other that of Minerva, all three being under one pediment and one roof.
3. Livy, History, 1.55.1-1.55.5, 5.51-5.54, 31.5.7, 36.1.3, 42.20.2, 42.20.4, 42.30.9 (1st cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)



Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
apollo Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
camillus Walter, Time in Ancient Stories of Origin (2020) 152, 153
capitol Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
carmen Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
comitium Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
commemoration Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
dedication (temple, epigraphic) Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
dreams Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
etruria, haruspicy and Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
etruria Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
hannibalic war Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
hariolus Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
haruspices, prophecies Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
haruspices, responses Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
haruspices Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85, 160
horatius cocles Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
inscriptional intermediality Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
jupiter, capitolinus Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
jupiter Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
lieux de mémoire (sites of memory) Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
livy Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
manius Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
marcii Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
marcius Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
marcus (character of div.) Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
private divination, livy Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
prodere Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
prodigies, in livy Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
prodigies, reporting Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
prodigy, livy on Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
prodigy Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
public divination Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
publicius Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
quinctius cincinnatus, l., (quin)decemuiri s.f. Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
quinctius cincinnatus, l., and haruspicy Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
quintus (character of div.) Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
religion Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
reported speech, and dicitur Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
reported speech, and fertur Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
reported speech, and ferunt Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
reported speech, and nuntiare Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
reported speech, tradere' Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
reported speech Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
second macedonian war Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
senate Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
shrine, for terminus Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
signs Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85
site, of memory Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
tarquinius superbus Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85, 160
temple, of juno moneta Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
temple, of jupiter optimus maximus Dinter and Guérin, Cultural Memory in Republican and Augustan Rome (2023) 297
uates, prophet-poet Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
uates Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 160
valerius antias Davies, Rome's Religious History: Livy, Tacitus and Ammianus on their Gods (2004) 31
victoria Santangelo, Roman Frugality: Modes of Moderation from the Archaic Age to the Early Empire and Beyond (2013) 85