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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



4479
Diogenes Laertius, Lives Of The Philosophers, 7.187-7.189


nanAgain: If anyone is in Megara, he is not in Athens: now there is a man in Megara, therefore there is not a man in Athens. Again: If you say something, it passes through your lips: now you say wagon, consequently a wagon passes through your lips. And further: If you never lost something, you have it still; but you never lost horns, ergo you have horns. Others attribute this to Eubulides.There are people who run Chrysippus down as having written much in a tone that is gross and indecent. For in his work On the ancient Natural Philosophers at line 600 or thereabouts he interprets the story of Hera and Zeus coarsely, with details which no one would soil his lips by repeating.


nanIndeed, his interpretation of the story is condemned as most indecent. He may be commending physical doctrine; but the language used is more appropriate to street-walkers than to deities; and it is moreover not even mentioned by bibliographers, who wrote on the titles of books. What Chrysippus makes of it is not to be found in Polemo nor Hypsicrates, no, nor even in Antigonus. It is his own invention. Again, in his Republic he permits marriage with mothers and daughters and sons. He says the same in his work On Things for their own Sake not Desirable, right at the outset. In the third book of his treatise On Justice, at about line 1000, he permits eating of the corpses of the dead. And in the second book of his On the Means of Livelihood, where he professes to be considering a priori how the wise man is to get his living, occur the words:


nanAnd yet what reason is there that he should provide a living? For if it be to support life, life itself is after all a thing indifferent. If it be for pleasure, pleasure too is a thing indifferent. While if it be for virtue, virtue in itself is sufficient to constitute happiness. The modes of getting a livelihood are also ludicrous, as e.g. maintenance by a king; for he will have to be humoured: or by friends; for friendship will then be purchasable for money: or living by wisdom; for so wisdom will become mercenary. These are the objections urged against him.


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

7 results
1. Cicero, On Duties, 1.128 (2nd cent. BCE - 1st cent. BCE)

1.128. Nec vero audiendi sunt Cynici, aut si qui filerunt Stoici paene Cynici, qui reprehendunt et irrident, quod ea, quae turpia non sint, verbis flagitiosa ducamus, illa autem, quae turpia sint, nominibus appellemus suis. Latrocinari, fraudare, adulterare re turpe est, sed dicitur non obscene; liberis dare operam re honestum est, nomine obscenum; pluraque in ear sententiam ab eisdem contra verecundiam disputantur. Nos autem naturam sequamur et ab omni, quod abhorret ab oculorum auriumque approbatione, fugiamus; status incessus, sessio accubitio, vultus oculi manuum motus teneat illud decorum. 1.128.  But we should give no heed to the Cynics (or to some Stoics who are practically Cynics) who censure and ridicule us for holding that the mere mention of some actions that are not immoral is shameful, while other things that are immoral we call by their real names. Robbery, fraud, and adultery, for example, are immoral in deed, but it is not indecent to name them. To beget children in wedlock is in deed morally right; to speak of it is indecent. And they assail modesty with a great many other arguments to the same purport. But as for us, let us follow Nature and shun everything that is offensive to our eyes or our ears. So, in standing or walking, in sitting or reclining, in our expression, our eyes, or the movements of our hands, let us preserve what we have called "propriety.
2. Epictetus, Discourses, 4.7 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

3. Plutarch, On Common Conceptions Against The Stoics, None (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

4. Plutarch, On Stoic Self-Contradictions, None (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

5. Sextus, Against The Mathematicians, 9.189-9.190, 11.190-11.191 (2nd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

6. Sextus, Outlines of Pyrrhonism, 3.245-3.246 (2nd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

7. Diogenes Laertius, Lives of The Philosophers, 7.4, 7.12, 7.33-7.34, 7.122, 7.188-7.189, 10.17 (3rd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

7.4. For a certain space, then, he was instructed by Crates, and when at this time he had written his Republic, some said in jest that he had written it on Cynosura, i.e. on the dog's tail. Besides the Republic he wrote the following works:of Life according to Nature.of Impulse, or Human Nature.of Emotions.of Duty.of Law.of Greek Education.of Vision.of the Whole World.of Signs.Pythagorean Questions.Universals.of Varieties of Style.Homeric Problems, in five books.of the Reading of Poetry.There are also by him:A Handbook of Rhetoric.Solutions.Two books of Refutations.Recollections of Crates.Ethics.This is a list of his writings. But at last he left Crates, and the men above mentioned were his masters for twenty years. Hence he is reported to have said, I made a prosperous voyage when I suffered shipwreck. But others attribute this saying of his to the time when he was under Crates. 7.12. Thraso of the deme Anacaea, Philocles of Peiraeus, Phaedrus of Anaphlystus, Medon of Acharnae, Micythus of Sypalettus, and Dion of Paeania have been elected commissioners for the making of the crown and the building.These are the terms of the decree.Antigonus of Carystus tells us that he never denied that he was a citizen of Citium. For when he was one of those who contributed to the restoration of the baths and his name was inscribed upon the pillar as Zeno the philosopher, he requested that the words of Citium should be added. He made a hollow lid for a flask and used to carry about money in it, in order that there might be provision at hand for the necessities of his master Crates. 7.33. Again, in the Republic, making an invidious contrast, he declares the good alone to be true citizens or friends or kindred or free men; and accordingly in the view of the Stoics parents and children are enemies, not being wise. Again, it is objected, in the Republic he lays down community of wives, and at line 200 prohibits the building of sanctuaries, law-courts and gymnasia in cities; while as regards a currency he writes that we should not think it need be introduced either for purposes of exchange or for travelling abroad. Further, he bids men and women wear the same dress and keep no part of the body entirely covered. 7.34. That the Republic is the work of Zeno is attested by Chrysippus in his De Republica. And he discussed amatory subjects in the beginning of that book of his which is entitled The Art of Love. Moreover, he writes much the same in his Interludes. So much for the criticisms to be found not only in Cassius but in Isidorus of Pergamum, the rhetorician. Isidorus likewise affirms that the passages disapproved by the school were expunged from his works by Athenodorus the Stoic, who was in charge of the Pergamene library; and that afterwards, when Athenodorus was detected and compromised, they were replaced. So much concerning the passages in his writings which are regarded as spurious. 7.122. though indeed there is also a second form of slavery consisting in subordination, and a third which implies possession of the slave as well as his subordination; the correlative of such servitude being lordship; and this too is evil. Moreover, according to them not only are the wise free, they are also kings; kingship being irresponsible rule, which none but the wise can maintain: so Chrysippus in his treatise vindicating Zeno's use of terminology. For he holds that knowledge of good and evil is a necessary attribute of the ruler, and that no bad man is acquainted with this science. Similarly the wise and good alone are fit to be magistrates, judges, or orators, whereas among the bad there is not one so qualified. 7.188. Indeed, his interpretation of the story is condemned as most indecent. He may be commending physical doctrine; but the language used is more appropriate to street-walkers than to deities; and it is moreover not even mentioned by bibliographers, who wrote on the titles of books. What Chrysippus makes of it is not to be found in Polemo nor Hypsicrates, no, nor even in Antigonus. It is his own invention. Again, in his Republic he permits marriage with mothers and daughters and sons. He says the same in his work On Things for their own Sake not Desirable, right at the outset. In the third book of his treatise On Justice, at about line 1000, he permits eating of the corpses of the dead. And in the second book of his On the Means of Livelihood, where he professes to be considering a priori how the wise man is to get his living, occur the words: 7.189. And yet what reason is there that he should provide a living? For if it be to support life, life itself is after all a thing indifferent. If it be for pleasure, pleasure too is a thing indifferent. While if it be for virtue, virtue in itself is sufficient to constitute happiness. The modes of getting a livelihood are also ludicrous, as e.g. maintece by a king; for he will have to be humoured: or by friends; for friendship will then be purchasable for money: or living by wisdom; for so wisdom will become mercenary. These are the objections urged against him. 10.17. on condition that they shall place the garden and all that pertains to it at the disposal of Hermarchus, son of Agemortus, of Mitylene, and the members of his society, and those whom Hermarchus may leave as his successors, to live and study in. And I entrust to my School in perpetuity the task of aiding Amynomachus and Timocrates and their heirs to preserve to the best of their power the common life in the garden in whatever way is best, and that these also (the heirs of the trustees) may help to maintain the garden in the same way as those to whom our successors in the School may bequeath it. And let Amynomachus and Timocrates permit Hermarchus and his fellow-members to live in the house in Melite for the lifetime of Hermarchus.


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
alexis (comic poet) Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
allegory Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
apollonius of tyre Bryan, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250; Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
appropriation' Jedan, Stoic Virtues: Chrysippus and the Religious Character of Stoic Ethics (2009) 203
argos Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
athenaeus Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
biography, of zeno Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
carneades Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
chrysippus Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35; Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
cicero Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
cuckoo Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
cynicism, influence on zeno Bryan, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250; Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
cynics Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
democritus Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
diogenes laertius Bryan, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250; Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
dios apate Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
erskine, andrew Jedan, Stoic Virtues: Chrysippus and the Religious Character of Stoic Ethics (2009) 203
heraclitus (author of homeric problems) Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
interpretation, allegoric Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
logos Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
metamorphosis Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
new comedy Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
pneuma Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
premarital union Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
samos Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
sedley, david Jedan, Stoic Virtues: Chrysippus and the Religious Character of Stoic Ethics (2009) 203
seneca (the younger) Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
sexuality Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
sotion Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
sperm Pirenne-Delforge and Pironti, The Hera of Zeus: Intimate Enemy, Ultimate Spouse (2022) 227
stoicism Gordon, The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus (2012) 35
stoics, origins of school Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
zeno Jedan, Stoic Virtues: Chrysippus and the Religious Character of Stoic Ethics (2009) 203
zeno of citium, biography Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250
zeno of citium, influence from cynicism Wardy and Warren, Authors and Authorities in Ancient Philosophy (2018) 250