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Tiresias: The Ancient Mediterranean Religions Source Database



4458
Dio Chrysostom, Orations, 36.23


nan For that, indeed, is the only constitution or city that may be called genuinely happy — the partnership of god with god; even if you include with the gods also everything that has the faculty of reason, mankind being thus included as boys are said to share in citizenship with men, being citizens by birth though not by reason of conceiving and performing the tasks of citizens or sharing in the law, of which they have no comprehension. However, if we take communities of a different kind, though everywhere and in every instance, we may almost say, they are absolutely faulty and worthless as compared with the supreme righteousness of the divine and blessed law and its proper administration, still for our present purpose we shall be supplied with examples of the type that is fairly equitable when compared with that which is utterly corrupt, just as among persons who are all ill we compare the man who had the lightest case with the one who is in worst condition." <


Intertexts (texts cited often on the same page as the searched text):

4 results
1. Dio Chrysostom, Orations, 4.83-4.98, 4.100-4.102, 4.109-4.115, 4.134-4.135, 12.75, 36.20, 36.22, 36.24-36.27, 36.31-36.32, 36.35, 36.38-36.39 (1st cent. CE

4.83.  "Now as there are, roughly speaking, three prevailing types of lives which the majority usually adopt, not after thoughtful consideration and testing, I assure you, but because they are carried away by chance and thoughtless impulse, we must affirm that there is just the same number of spirits whom the great mass of foolish humanity follows and serves — some men one spirit and some another — just as a wicked and wanton troop follows a wicked and frenzied leader. 4.84.  of these types of lives which I have mentioned, the first is luxurious and self-indulgent as regards bodily pleasures, the second, in its turn, is acquisitive and avaricious, while the third is more conspicuous and more disordered than the other two — I mean the one that loves honour and glory — and it manifests a more evident and violent disorder or frenzy, deluding itself into believing that it is enamoured of some noble ideal. 4.85.  "Therefore, come, let us imitate clever artists. They put the impress of their thought and art upon practically everything, representing not only the various gods in human forms but everything else as well. Sometimes they paint rivers in the likeness of men and springs in certain feminine shapes, yes, and islands and cities and well-nigh everything else, like Homer, who boldly represented the Scamander as speaking beneath his flood 4.86.  and though they cannot give speech to their figures, nevertheless do give them forms and symbols appropriate to their nature, as, for example, their river gods recline, usually naked, and wear long flowing beards and on their heads crowns of tamarisk or rushes. 4.87.  Let us then show ourselves to be no whit worse or less competent in the field of discourse than they in their several arts as we mould and depict the characters of the three spirits of the three lives, therein displaying an accomplishment the reverse of and complementary to the skill and prophetic power of the physiognomists, as they call them. 4.88.  These men can determine and announce a man's character from his shape and appearance; while we propose to draw from a man's habits and acts, a type and shape that will match the physiognomist's work — that is, if we shall succeed in getting hold rather of the average and lower types. 4.89.  Since our purpose is to show the absurdity existing in human lives, there is no impropriety or objection to our being seen imitating poets or artists or, if need be, priests of purification and to our striving to furnish illustrations and examples from every source, in the hope of being able to win souls from evil, delusion, and wicked desires and to lead them to love virtue and to long for a better life; 4.90.  or else we might follow the practice of some of those who deal with initiations and rites of purification, who appease the wrath of Hecate and undertake to make a person sound, and then before the cleansing process, as I understand, set forth and point to the many and various visions that, as they claim, the goddess sends when angry. 4.91.  "Well, then, the avaricious spirit craves gold, silver, lands, cattle, blocks of houses, and every kind of possession. Would it not be represented by a good artist as downcast and gloomy of appearance, humble and mean of dress — aye, as squalid and ragged, loving neither children nor parents nor native land, and recognizing no kinship but that of money, and considering the gods as nothing more than that which reveals to him many vast treasures or the deaths of certain kinsfolk and connections from whom he might inherit, regarding our holy festivals as sheer loss and useless expense, never laughing or smiling 4.92.  eyeing all with suspicion and thinking them dangerous, distrusting everybody, having a rapacious look, ever twitching his fingers as he computes his own property, I take it, or that of someone else — a spirit not only without appreciation or capacity for any other thing, but scoffing at education and literature except when they have to do with estimates and contracts, the still blinder lover of wealth, which is rightly described and portrayed as blind; 4.93.  mad about every kind of possession and thinking that nothing should be thrown away; unlike the magnetic stone, which they say attracts iron to itself, but amassing copper and lead as well, yes, even sand and rock if anyone gives them, and everywhere and in almost every case regarding possession as more profitable and better than non-possession. He is most frantic and eager, however, to get money, simply because success here is quickest and cheapest, since money goes on piling up day and night and outstrips, I ween, the circuits of the moon. 4.94.  He recks naught of dislike, hate, and curses and, besides, holds that while other kinds of possessions may be pretty baubles wherewith to amuse oneself, money, to put it succinctly, is the very essence of wealth. 4.95.  This, therefore, is what he seeks and pursues from any and every source, never concerning himself at all to ask whether it is acquired by shameful or by unjust means, except insofar as, observing the punishments meted out to footpads, he lets cowardice get the better of him and becomes cautious. For he has the soul of a worthless cur, that snatches up things when it expects not to be noticed, and looks on other morsels with longing eyes but keeps away from them, though reluctantly, because the guards are by. 4.96.  So let him be a man insignificant in appearance, servile, unsleeping, never smiling, ever quarrelling and fighting with someone, very much like a pander, who in garb as well as in character is shameless and niggardly, dressed in a coloured mantle, the finery of one of his harlots. 4.135.  Again, the spirit that loves distinction counsels and encourages him to sacrifice all that he has for the sake of honour, but the other spirit opposes and blocks this one. And indeed, the lover of pleasure and the lover of fame can never be in accord or say the same thing; for the one despises fame, thinks it nonsense, and often cites the lines of Sardanapallus: 'What I have eaten and wantoned, the joys I have had of my amours, These alone have I now. The rest of my blessings have vanished.' 36.22.  For no one knows of a good city made wholly of good elements as having existed in the past, that is, a city of mortal men, nor is it worth while to conceive of such a city as possibly arising in the future, unless it be a city of the blessed gods in heaven, by no means motionless or inactive, but vigorous and progressive, its guides and leaders being gods, exempt from strife and defeat. For it is impious to suppose that gods indulge in strife or are subject to defeat, either by one another, friends as they are, or by more power­ful beings; on the contrary, we must think of them as performing their several functions without let or hindrance and with unvarying friendship of all toward all in common, the most conspicuous among them each pursuing an independent course — I don't mean wandering aimlessly and senselessly, but rather dancing a dance of happiness coupled with wisdom and supreme intelligence — while the rest of the celestial host are swept along by the general movement, the entire heaven having one single purpose and impulse. 36.24.  Well then, I was launching forth upon that general line in my discussion, when one of those who were present, the eldest in the company and held in high esteem, spoke up, interrupting me, and in a very guarded manner said, "Stranger, pray do not think it boorish or barbarous of me to intervene in the midst of your discourse. For while in your country such conduct is not good manners, because of the great abundance of philosophical discussions and because one may listen to many men upon any topic he may desire, in ours this visit of yours to our city seems almost a miraculous event. 36.25.  As a usual thing those who come here are nominally Greeks but actually more barbarous than ourselves, traders and market-men, fellows who import cheap rags and vile wine and export in exchange products of no better quality. But you would appear to have been sent to us by Achilles himself from his holy isle, and we are very glad to see you and very glad also to listen to whatever you have to say. However, we do not believe that this visit of yours is to be of very long duration, nor do we desire it to be, but rather that you may have a prosperous voyage home as speedily as possible. 36.26.  Now therefore, since in your remarks you have touched upon the divine form of government, I myself am tremendously excited, and I see that my friends here also are all worked up in anticipation of that theme. The fact is that in our opinion everything you have said has been magnificently expressed, in a manner not unworthy of your theme, and precisely as we should most desire to hear. For although we are unacquainted with this more refined form of philosophy, yet we are, as you know, lovers of Homer, and some, not many, lovers of Plato too. To this latter group I myself belong, for I always read his writings as best I can; and yet it may perhaps seem odd that one who speaks the poorest Greek of all the people of Borysthenes should delight in the man who is most Greek and most wise and should cultivate that man's society, quite as if a person almost wholly blind were to shun every other light but turn his gaze upward to the sun itself. 36.27.  "This, then, is our situation; and if you wish to do us all a favour, postpone your discussion of the mortal city — possibly our neighbours may after all grant us leisure tomorrow, and not compel us to exert ourselves against them as is generally our wont — and tell us instead about that divine city or government, whichever you prefer to call it, stating where it is and what it is like, aiming as closely as possible at Plato's nobility of expression, just as but now you seemed to us to do. For if we understand nothing else, we do at least understand his language because of our long familiarity with it, for it has a lofty sound, not far removed from the voice of Homer. 36.31.  "This doctrine, in brief, aims to harmonize the human race with the divine, and to embrace in a single term everything endowed with reason, finding in reason the only sure and indissoluble foundation for fellowship and justice. For in keeping with that concept the term 'city' would be applied, not, of course, to an organization that has chanced to get mean or petty leaders nor to one which through tyranny or democracy or, in fact, through decarchy or oligarchy or any other similar product of imperfection, is being torn to pieces and made the victim of constant party faction. Nay, term would be applied rather to an organization that is governed by the sanest and noblest form of kingship, to one that is actually under royal goverce in accordance with law, in complete friendship and concord. 36.32.  And this, indeed, is precisely what the wisest and eldest ruler and law-giver ordains for all, both mortals and immortals, he who is the leader of all the heaven and lord of all being, himself thus expounding the term and offering his own administration as a pattern of the happy and blessed condition, he whom the divine bards, instructed by the Muses, praise in song and call the 'father of gods and men.' 36.35.  But the poets who came after them in later days, bringing to stage and theatre naught but their own wisdom, uninitiate addressing initiate, have ofttimes disclosed imperfect patterns of holy rites; but, being applauded by the multitude, they tried in their own right to initiate the mob, actually, as we might say, building open booths for Bacchic rites at tragic crossroads."Yet all these poets in precisely the same fashion call the first and greatest god Father of the whole rational family collectively, yes, and King besides. 36.38.  "This, then, is the theory of the philosophers, a theory which sets up a noble and benevolent fellowship of gods and men which gives a share in law and citizenship, not to all living beings whatsoever, but only to such as have a share in reason and intellect, introducing a far better and more righteous code than that of Sparta, in accordance with which the Helots have no prospect of ever becoming Spartans, and consequently are constantly plotting against Sparta. 36.39.  "Moreover, there is besides a myth which arouses admiration as sung in secret rites by the Magi, who extol this god of ours as being the perfect and original driver of the most perfect chariot. For the chariot of Helius, they claim, is relatively recent when compared with that of Zeus, though visible to the many because its course is run in full view. Therefore, they say, the chariot of Helius has enjoyed a reputation with all mankind, since the poets, beginning practically with the earliest times, so it would seem, are always telling of its rising and its setting, all in the same manner describing the yoking of the horses and Helius himself mounting his car.
2. Epictetus, Discourses, 3.22.53 (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

3. Plutarch, Moralia, 789d, 792, 286a (1st cent. CE - 2nd cent. CE)

4. Diogenes Laertius, Lives of The Philosophers, 7.94 (3rd cent. CE - 3rd cent. CE)

7.94. Good in general is that from which some advantage comes, and more particularly what is either identical with or not distinct from benefit. Whence it follows that virtue itself and whatever partakes of virtue is called good in these three senses – viz. as being (1) the source from which benefit results; or (2) that in respect of which benefit results, e.g. the virtuous act; or (3) that by the agency of which benefit results, e.g. the good man who partakes in virtue.Another particular definition of good which they give is the natural perfection of a rational being qua rational. To this answers virtue and, as being partakers in virtue, virtuous acts and good men; as also its supervening accessories, joy and gladness and the like.


Subjects of this text:

subject book bibliographic info
aemilius paullus Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77
ailios aristeides Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77
annas, julia Jedan, Stoic Virtues: Chrysippus and the Religious Character of Stoic Ethics (2009) 184
asklepios Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
caesars, roman Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 103
cicero Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 103
cities, as thematic locus in herodotean reception Kirkland, Herodotus and Imperial Greek Literature: Criticism, Imitation, Reception (2022) 174, 175, 176
cosmic city' Jedan, Stoic Virtues: Chrysippus and the Religious Character of Stoic Ethics (2009) 184
dio chrysostom, hellenism and greekness, representations of Kirkland, Herodotus and Imperial Greek Literature: Criticism, Imitation, Reception (2022) 174
dio chrysostom, zoroastrianism Kirkland, Herodotus and Imperial Greek Literature: Criticism, Imitation, Reception (2022) 175, 176
dio chrysostom Kirkland, Herodotus and Imperial Greek Literature: Criticism, Imitation, Reception (2022) 174, 175, 176
dion of prousa Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77, 103, 136, 138
epiktetos Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
god, gods Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 103
gods, harmony among Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
gods and humans Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136, 138
harmony among the gods Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
humankind, unity of Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77, 103
humans united with god Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136, 138
koinonia Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 103, 136, 138
lucius verus Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
marcus aurelius Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
oikeiosis Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 103
oikoumene Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77
plato Kirkland, Herodotus and Imperial Greek Literature: Criticism, Imitation, Reception (2022) 174, 175, 176; Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 138
plutarch Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77, 136, 138
polytheism Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136, 138
sarapis Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136
scipio africanus Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 77
stoic thought Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 138
sungeneia Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 136, 138
universe, harmony of the Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 138
wonder (thauma, thôma) Kirkland, Herodotus and Imperial Greek Literature: Criticism, Imitation, Reception (2022) 176
zeus Stanton, Unity and Disunity in Greek and Christian Thought under the Roman Peace (2021) 103, 138